oh any by the way, a couple of things are fact and will always remain fact.
MUSLIM and SUBMITTER means the same thing, i reckon by translation submitter is the english of Muslim,, so to all them people when they ask you are you a musim and they say no and they say i am a submitter, these ones are starting to become disillusioned and sstarting to create a new sect out of what has always been.
yes you want to seperate yourself from those who you feel worship God and prophet, but the religion of god has never been about God and prophet but God alone that is what our scriptures tells us....
whatever we are saying now is nothing new, it has always been there for those who chose to grasp it and look to God alone, those who chose to listen to human beings get whatever they want...
yes we may have different understandings on how thngs may be , but should that be enough to divide us. NO it cannot because if on the onset we all say we worship God alone and we see that we do in terms of behavious and action, then everything else is understanding and all that is left to God..
everybody wants something to call their own, they want to feel superior to others, in terms of growth, spirituality, advancement,,,, that is our ego's work... but Gods truth and in my view the worship of God alone is past all these egoic stances because if we truly believe in god and yes i agree with the scripture on this - if we truly believe in God, we will know that God controls everything.. we will fear no injustice or harm.
the message of God has always been the same.. it as always been worship God alone devote the religion to GOD ALONE.... anyone who does different to this is just kidding themseves - May god guide us to his truth and his path...
Islam is not a new religion but rather is a culmination of what has aways been, from judaism to christianity to islam - they are all the same.. if we dig deep down we will see that....
i have always said, how can all three main religions share som much but yet they hate - and yes that is the truth - some misguided people - themselves.. they were all given the same messag but down the line MAN through the trappings of power, greed and envy have all but try to distort the messge of God. But God be praised that he has said His truth will reign supreme over any falseness or untruth..
it is one God, when we all ask who created the earth, who is controlling all things we all say God dont we,, so why can we see that it is GOD - one GOD that we all want to worship....
jews have scripture of abraham, torah from moses and psalms from david - to these they have in my view added subtracted and just plain lef out whatever they want, christians have gospel - to which they have added and subtracted and made their own version of what is and what isnt and muslims have quran to which they have added and transated to suit themselves... when will this all stop.......
one day when the truth all comes out the world will be shocked, esp for those who seem to think that they are doig the right thing.. everybody every grou every sect is claiming right but as we all know, there is only one right!!! Gods right - so we cant all be claiming and still think that we are sure of the right.... the only right thing in my view is worship God alone and devote the religion to God alone, while maintaining righteousness...
for those who cannot see God but for his messengers, then i have ti tell you that it is a liberating logical sequence to relate to God directly - for thse who hold on to mohammed or jeus as their salvation, then good for you... may God guide us sll and show us his truth....
if you are a king and you have a servant, would you tell people to give your servant more praise than they give you....?? then whoo is the servant and who is the King....
for me its logic, when you have three things holding on to one thing and each saying theirs is the right thing, would it not be good to list things in agree and disagree... the agree part is the truth because that remains unchanged, the disagree part is their interpretation of things and that each year is subject to change and personal inferences..
so in effect I am a jew I am a christian and I am a muslim - whatever label title you want to give me... the most important of all is that I am a worshipper of God and i worship God alone and devite the religion to Him alone , everything i do is dedicated to God alone, my praise, my practice and my Life.... to God alone.....
themysteries of the okder generations intrigue me, somethings i dont understand and i cant imagine, like to have a prophet of God in your midst relaying the word of God you you, like to see the red sea being parted bfre your very eyes, infact God is just amazing.....
sometimes i feel i am tired of this world, and its true because with each year going with each envy, greed,, claim fr power and lies that are being shown by everybdy, i may not be able to cope an di far to loose my soul in all the iniquity and sin.... anyhow whenever i die whevener that day may be , i hope that by then god has forgiven me for all my sins and assured me paradise, and by that i mean that my time in life remaining be kept seeking Gods forgiveness for my many sons and keeping me from comitting new ones, my time be kept in righteousness as a servant of my God- The God who created us all, worshipping him and being devited to him, single, married or otherwise, working, housewife or otherwise, driving or public transporting, eating or cooking - regardless of whatever situation i may be in, God allw me to worship thee, hold onto thee only and allow me righteousness to be devoted onto thee only.
Sunday, 10 January 2010
Conscious Action - Delete the emails..., and i leave it to God to guide me to his path, to hold me close and to grant me steadfastness..
precdents have been set for us in the scriptures with regards to Gods messengers, when someone who is claiming wont leave you alone but incessantly sends you emails upon emails, - remember there is no compulsion in religion - why isnt it enough for you to state ur message and leave it as that?? why must you email at 2.41 then at 2.44 then at 2.48 for example.. at this point i am thinking you have nothing better to do with your time, and also you are clutching at straws... because logical behaviour in my view is to say what you want to say and leave it to people to decide afterall you are not their guardian...
but when you start to email incessantly and in the course of these emails, you turn arrogant, rude, and you assume authority, when there is none..... then at this point i reckon ... "God help us all"...
because for one who is clear of his message states his message without any ambiguity or mis intent - that is who i feel is guided by God, but for one who is not sure of what he is saying and continually spins everyone around, slowly antagonising each person and slowly drawing people into the arena with his choice of words. - that person is a mischief maker... God does not like mischief....i am clear of that fact..
from the scriptures, the examples of messengers message have been simple direct and to the point, they state their message and leave the people to it.. when they see they are not getting anywhere they revert to God, not incessant barrage on the people.
when you start shrouding any explanation in lenghty words and grammer, then for me there is something wrong, because Gods message is simple and direct and lacks no ambguity
i will admit sometimes i see things from ur statements but most of the time especially when you quote the quran, your logic in my view ends up as nonsence because in effect, its like you are adding 1+1 and getting 55.
by that i meam you take half a statement from one verse and take half a statement from another verse and join them up to arrive at your reaon.. for me such a reason is severly flawed... Gods words are complete and need no abbrogation, this action of 1+1 equals 55 is for me like abrogation....
experience has taught me to listen to my heart especially when God is concerned.. the very first time i met you, i was suspicious and when i listened to your explanations i was even weary because i felt i saw a micheief maker at work.. your company and comments have caused a dispersal of a group - i feel you have antagonised everyone and played a part in boosting the egoic stance of some people...and it is a shame most people dont see this... but nevertheless this is how i feel... god guides us all and if i am wrong, may god forgive me... couple of things that i have deduced from emailing you, is that you are intelligent, but intelligence and stupidity goes hand in hand, you are averse to arab people, i dont know what they have done to you but this is slowly poisning your mind, and i am quite sure you know what you are doing... what i would rather be more interesting in finding out is the people who you were in contact with with in america when you were there, this part is by an large an open space for me and i wonder why i am interested in finding this out.... because you have arrived into a group with deceit( your intentions were wrong in my view) and as such any message that you spout can only ever be deceit... this divide and conquer in my view is how you gain attention for yourself, and it is is interesting to view....
I am clear what is in the scripture( may god increase in my knowledge) and i am clear that all truth belongs to God,
my initial thoughts are as thus.. so what if you are a messenger so what? what is your message - worship God devoting the message to God alone.. well fair enuff, that is the same message as before and this never changes...
I cannot seem to reconcile the rudeness, arrogance and what i call stupid talk from someone who claims to be a messenger of God... I will trust that God will guide me to righteousmess and he will grant me steadfastness in his cause...
my last word in the matter is as thus and this is a conscious effor from me to stop reading the incessant emails that i am being bombarded with, my mind is clear at the moment regards this.. anyones emails re this topic i will be deleting, it does not cost me a penny to delete ...
------------------
XXXXX peace and blessing of God upon you and the same goes for everyone as well
i am rather bemused by this word - clarifying messenger.
What is there to clarify -
to clarify would imply that the message of God is ambigous and is not clear - but i feel otherwise, The message is quite clear in content and intent and as such any understanding needed would come only from God - as God holds all knowledge and understanding.
if you feel the quran is not clear would you not seek to God to help you with understanding-
what is there to clarify - some issues that are not tackled in the Quran - let uus remember that they are not tackled for a reason - Gods has the plan and he knows - if it is an issue that affects me directly - i would seek God for guidance and direction - although as with human nature i will seek otehrs opinions - OPINIONS - not answers or guidance - with the hjope that God will inspire me to the best outtake - God has reveleaved that the Quran is complete - what other guidance or clarification is needed - we cannever be the first not will we be the last to ask about issues in the Quran that we feel are not covered - but remember the risk of loosing your soul in trying to find out about what the same other people have tried to find out...
This instinct we have from birth about God, if we develop it then surely God willing our own explanation will become clear for us - sometimes it may not be a one size fits all - your conscience will tell you wether something is right or not or wether you are pushing your luck or boundaries - who gives you that conscience - God does...That is the inspiration that he sends to us - These are my views.
What is there to clarify. the smoke - if the smoke is inevitable what action can we do to avoid it???.. none - will there be an underground tunnell for us to hide in until it clears?, is there a special way for us to board up our houses and windows so it does not enter our houses?, is there a special gas mask for us to buy? - Gods retribution is imminent but God has provided us with his mercy at the same time -Our Lord, relieve this retribution for us, We are believers. it is only the disbelievers that suffer at Gods retribution - let us remember the story of Lot and noah and other messengers whose story are detailed in the Quran.
What is there to clarify - that we should worship God alone and devote the religion absolutely to Him - does that need clarity... That has always been the message - Does this message need clarity???
God guides those he wills and he sends astray whomever he wills - we know that from teh scripture and also by looking at history and we should know that with God is the authority to Guide and provide clarity.
if i am not sure about a certain thing - will i run to any human being or will i implore God for understanding and clarity - in doing so if i say i trust in God i will have assurance and patience that at the best time that is right for me God will make it clear by providing me with the opportunity to experience and reflect and grasp what is at hand...
Who is more apt to give us these opportunities other than God...
My mind is always open - my life experiences has taught me that - but at the same time i am clear what is and what isnt and I seek to God to direct me in teh righteous path as a believer unto him alone, seeking his mercy and forgiveness daily.
alaykum salam
fatty fatty fats
===========================
Peace Fatima,
You are right. There is much division within the submitters. For over a year now, one of those divisions has remained unresolved. It is interesting that both sides of the division used the Koran to support their stance, yet the division remains. Could it be that our egos have got in the way of us all? Interestingly, it was Alban who pointed out that a simple meeting between some submitters could have sorted out this problem. I get the feeling that we are not seeing the wood for the trees, the trees being ALL OUR EGOS. If you look back at that period, it was a big ego fest when everyone was keen to have their say. I for one was very vocal. Yet if I had pulled back and thought to try and deal with the issue quietly then perhaps it might not have become so big and perhaps those involved could have been better supported by us all.
It is the same with the **** issue. It is becoming blown up and verses from the Koran are being thrown back and forth. If people can, perhaps they could take their time to slowly mull over what is being presented by **** and then make their decisions. I don't believe there is any need for decisions to be made quickly. Perhaps someone would care to explain why the urgent need to say yes or no.
I agree with you Fatima on one point especially. That of ****'s explanations. They are often lengthy and involved. I don't know what skills of clarity a messenger should have, but as **** says he is a clarifying messenger, then I feel his explanations should be clear so that we get clarity. Having said that, when I take the time to really understand what **** is saying I am often impressed.
As I said in an earlier email echoing Tasleem, I think it is best to keep an open mind.
Peace,
xxx.
===========================
sorry?
****** salam alaykum, and salam alaykum everyone -
****** I have said all i want to say with my previous email to you , please do nto include me in this matter, because for me it is a plan to slowly incite people - in this case me - into actions that are unbecoming of them.. it is funny - in the begining i said it was a divide and conquer and i am enjoying it because it is slowly taking shape....
after much consideration, i am seeking refuge with God from all these show of ego and counter ego and i do nto wish to be included in them.
although i am rather enjoying the rhetorts back and forward i am also at this point rather much getting sick and tired of it now because it is a shame.
a couple of things are facts for me and i reckon as submitters - wanting to worship God - we should all consider.
regardless of his claim as messenger or not, **** is not saying Worship other than God.
his explanations for me are far fetched and in no way can i reconcile then with what is in the Quran - which i find clear
if you dont like his explanations or feel that his explanations are wrong - then do a couple of things - ignore him or tell him, and provide your own logic or avoid asking him questions.
all understand and knowledge belongs to God - he bestows it upon whomever he wills.
We are all learning ( at least i am) so therefore we have patience tolerance with everyones elses understanding and grasp of things.
i believe that people can contribute and can grasp things and want to share it with the wider group of those who want to worship God alone - this does not make them a messenger of God, nor does it not not make them a messenger of God. - look at all those who contributed with regards to RK's translation of the Quran.
we need to define what we mean by messenger of God and i guess this is what is antagonising most peoplle - to a certain extent we are still identified with the human being far more than we identify with God.. because i reckon if we identify with God alone - what ever anyone may say, write or distribute should not matter in the slightest because we should know that God holds all truth and that the truth of God will always outshine any false claim or message. We should be secure with that knowledge and confident that God guides those whom he chooses.
as long as the message remains worship God alone and seek your guidance from God alone and clarification through the Quran - then why are we splitting hairs left right and center...
because someone who calls himself a submitter says he is a messenger of God, ok then good if they are a messneger of God so what? are they giving me automatic entry to paradise? can they absolve me of all my sins? Can they change any law of God,
the answer is no..
whatever message i need is in the Quran and god willing in the right time God will provide me with it, The most important message is Worship God alone. god knows our intentions and he sees our inner mischiefs - why on earth will i be splitting my hair over anyone who says ther are a messanger of God, - they are a dime a dozen - whatever religious demonination - they are all plenty out there. so why should this claim be any different in the way we respond to it and view it..
if that was the case that we fell strongly that we fully understand a particular message in the Quran then we may as well call ourselves all messengers of God...( i am quite sure when reading the Quran we feel strongly about a certain surah and we feel we have got to grips with the message and intent it is relaying)
We are creating havoc when there need not to be one - we are slowly creating division when there needs not to be one...
Let us remember God -
who are we arguing for, we are not arging for Gods sake, God is in no need of our arguements - we are all doing that individually for the sake of our own soul to grant us favour with the good Lord.
we are forgetting tolerance, understanding and patience....
look as far as i am concerned and i said this a while back, - if we focus on God surely we cannot fail, the time and energy it is taking for all these emails to be read, composed would rather in my view be better spent on praising, glorifying, exalting and imploring God to provide us with knowledge and understanding.God is the one who provides guidance, and by His grace He will guide us all.
everything in life is a lesson and it is a opportunity to reflect and see if we are true to what we say we believe in.
i am rather a simplistic person and i have very simple outlooks - and this is my own opinions in the matter.
salam alaykum everyone.
ps: fatima is about the only one that she knows that even with a spell checker - you will still find errors in her correspondence - so if you do find any errors, apologies - but i hope you get the gist of what i am trying to say.
pps: my french is awful - and i would have loved to translate - but i have used some non grammatical lingo that may be hard to grasp in my translate site.
pps: some of you have said for **** to stop email you, then why he still including you in his emails, and also why are you concerned and emailing him back.... lol
alaykum salam everyone.
as usual - if i have offended anyone by my email - it is not intentional - and i apologise, i can only state as i see it - let us remember God, Worship God alone, Remember unity, remember tolerance, and lastly remember We cannot guide anyone at all, God is in charge of everyones guidance.
Fatty Fats
==============================
this has to be said.
but when you start to email incessantly and in the course of these emails, you turn arrogant, rude, and you assume authority, when there is none..... then at this point i reckon ... "God help us all"...
because for one who is clear of his message states his message without any ambiguity or mis intent - that is who i feel is guided by God, but for one who is not sure of what he is saying and continually spins everyone around, slowly antagonising each person and slowly drawing people into the arena with his choice of words. - that person is a mischief maker... God does not like mischief....i am clear of that fact..
from the scriptures, the examples of messengers message have been simple direct and to the point, they state their message and leave the people to it.. when they see they are not getting anywhere they revert to God, not incessant barrage on the people.
when you start shrouding any explanation in lenghty words and grammer, then for me there is something wrong, because Gods message is simple and direct and lacks no ambguity
i will admit sometimes i see things from ur statements but most of the time especially when you quote the quran, your logic in my view ends up as nonsence because in effect, its like you are adding 1+1 and getting 55.
by that i meam you take half a statement from one verse and take half a statement from another verse and join them up to arrive at your reaon.. for me such a reason is severly flawed... Gods words are complete and need no abbrogation, this action of 1+1 equals 55 is for me like abrogation....
experience has taught me to listen to my heart especially when God is concerned.. the very first time i met you, i was suspicious and when i listened to your explanations i was even weary because i felt i saw a micheief maker at work.. your company and comments have caused a dispersal of a group - i feel you have antagonised everyone and played a part in boosting the egoic stance of some people...and it is a shame most people dont see this... but nevertheless this is how i feel... god guides us all and if i am wrong, may god forgive me... couple of things that i have deduced from emailing you, is that you are intelligent, but intelligence and stupidity goes hand in hand, you are averse to arab people, i dont know what they have done to you but this is slowly poisning your mind, and i am quite sure you know what you are doing... what i would rather be more interesting in finding out is the people who you were in contact with with in america when you were there, this part is by an large an open space for me and i wonder why i am interested in finding this out.... because you have arrived into a group with deceit( your intentions were wrong in my view) and as such any message that you spout can only ever be deceit... this divide and conquer in my view is how you gain attention for yourself, and it is is interesting to view....
I am clear what is in the scripture( may god increase in my knowledge) and i am clear that all truth belongs to God,
my initial thoughts are as thus.. so what if you are a messenger so what? what is your message - worship God devoting the message to God alone.. well fair enuff, that is the same message as before and this never changes...
I cannot seem to reconcile the rudeness, arrogance and what i call stupid talk from someone who claims to be a messenger of God... I will trust that God will guide me to righteousmess and he will grant me steadfastness in his cause...
my last word in the matter is as thus and this is a conscious effor from me to stop reading the incessant emails that i am being bombarded with, my mind is clear at the moment regards this.. anyones emails re this topic i will be deleting, it does not cost me a penny to delete ...
------------------
XXXXX peace and blessing of God upon you and the same goes for everyone as well
i am rather bemused by this word - clarifying messenger.
What is there to clarify -
to clarify would imply that the message of God is ambigous and is not clear - but i feel otherwise, The message is quite clear in content and intent and as such any understanding needed would come only from God - as God holds all knowledge and understanding.
if you feel the quran is not clear would you not seek to God to help you with understanding-
what is there to clarify - some issues that are not tackled in the Quran - let uus remember that they are not tackled for a reason - Gods has the plan and he knows - if it is an issue that affects me directly - i would seek God for guidance and direction - although as with human nature i will seek otehrs opinions - OPINIONS - not answers or guidance - with the hjope that God will inspire me to the best outtake - God has reveleaved that the Quran is complete - what other guidance or clarification is needed - we cannever be the first not will we be the last to ask about issues in the Quran that we feel are not covered - but remember the risk of loosing your soul in trying to find out about what the same other people have tried to find out...
This instinct we have from birth about God, if we develop it then surely God willing our own explanation will become clear for us - sometimes it may not be a one size fits all - your conscience will tell you wether something is right or not or wether you are pushing your luck or boundaries - who gives you that conscience - God does...That is the inspiration that he sends to us - These are my views.
What is there to clarify. the smoke - if the smoke is inevitable what action can we do to avoid it???.. none - will there be an underground tunnell for us to hide in until it clears?, is there a special way for us to board up our houses and windows so it does not enter our houses?, is there a special gas mask for us to buy? - Gods retribution is imminent but God has provided us with his mercy at the same time -Our Lord, relieve this retribution for us, We are believers. it is only the disbelievers that suffer at Gods retribution - let us remember the story of Lot and noah and other messengers whose story are detailed in the Quran.
What is there to clarify - that we should worship God alone and devote the religion absolutely to Him - does that need clarity... That has always been the message - Does this message need clarity???
God guides those he wills and he sends astray whomever he wills - we know that from teh scripture and also by looking at history and we should know that with God is the authority to Guide and provide clarity.
if i am not sure about a certain thing - will i run to any human being or will i implore God for understanding and clarity - in doing so if i say i trust in God i will have assurance and patience that at the best time that is right for me God will make it clear by providing me with the opportunity to experience and reflect and grasp what is at hand...
Who is more apt to give us these opportunities other than God...
My mind is always open - my life experiences has taught me that - but at the same time i am clear what is and what isnt and I seek to God to direct me in teh righteous path as a believer unto him alone, seeking his mercy and forgiveness daily.
alaykum salam
fatty fatty fats
===========================
Peace Fatima,
You are right. There is much division within the submitters. For over a year now, one of those divisions has remained unresolved. It is interesting that both sides of the division used the Koran to support their stance, yet the division remains. Could it be that our egos have got in the way of us all? Interestingly, it was Alban who pointed out that a simple meeting between some submitters could have sorted out this problem. I get the feeling that we are not seeing the wood for the trees, the trees being ALL OUR EGOS. If you look back at that period, it was a big ego fest when everyone was keen to have their say. I for one was very vocal. Yet if I had pulled back and thought to try and deal with the issue quietly then perhaps it might not have become so big and perhaps those involved could have been better supported by us all.
It is the same with the **** issue. It is becoming blown up and verses from the Koran are being thrown back and forth. If people can, perhaps they could take their time to slowly mull over what is being presented by **** and then make their decisions. I don't believe there is any need for decisions to be made quickly. Perhaps someone would care to explain why the urgent need to say yes or no.
I agree with you Fatima on one point especially. That of ****'s explanations. They are often lengthy and involved. I don't know what skills of clarity a messenger should have, but as **** says he is a clarifying messenger, then I feel his explanations should be clear so that we get clarity. Having said that, when I take the time to really understand what **** is saying I am often impressed.
As I said in an earlier email echoing Tasleem, I think it is best to keep an open mind.
Peace,
xxx.
===========================
sorry?
****** salam alaykum, and salam alaykum everyone -
****** I have said all i want to say with my previous email to you , please do nto include me in this matter, because for me it is a plan to slowly incite people - in this case me - into actions that are unbecoming of them.. it is funny - in the begining i said it was a divide and conquer and i am enjoying it because it is slowly taking shape....
after much consideration, i am seeking refuge with God from all these show of ego and counter ego and i do nto wish to be included in them.
although i am rather enjoying the rhetorts back and forward i am also at this point rather much getting sick and tired of it now because it is a shame.
a couple of things are facts for me and i reckon as submitters - wanting to worship God - we should all consider.
regardless of his claim as messenger or not, **** is not saying Worship other than God.
his explanations for me are far fetched and in no way can i reconcile then with what is in the Quran - which i find clear
if you dont like his explanations or feel that his explanations are wrong - then do a couple of things - ignore him or tell him, and provide your own logic or avoid asking him questions.
all understand and knowledge belongs to God - he bestows it upon whomever he wills.
We are all learning ( at least i am) so therefore we have patience tolerance with everyones elses understanding and grasp of things.
i believe that people can contribute and can grasp things and want to share it with the wider group of those who want to worship God alone - this does not make them a messenger of God, nor does it not not make them a messenger of God. - look at all those who contributed with regards to RK's translation of the Quran.
we need to define what we mean by messenger of God and i guess this is what is antagonising most peoplle - to a certain extent we are still identified with the human being far more than we identify with God.. because i reckon if we identify with God alone - what ever anyone may say, write or distribute should not matter in the slightest because we should know that God holds all truth and that the truth of God will always outshine any false claim or message. We should be secure with that knowledge and confident that God guides those whom he chooses.
as long as the message remains worship God alone and seek your guidance from God alone and clarification through the Quran - then why are we splitting hairs left right and center...
because someone who calls himself a submitter says he is a messenger of God, ok then good if they are a messneger of God so what? are they giving me automatic entry to paradise? can they absolve me of all my sins? Can they change any law of God,
the answer is no..
whatever message i need is in the Quran and god willing in the right time God will provide me with it, The most important message is Worship God alone. god knows our intentions and he sees our inner mischiefs - why on earth will i be splitting my hair over anyone who says ther are a messanger of God, - they are a dime a dozen - whatever religious demonination - they are all plenty out there. so why should this claim be any different in the way we respond to it and view it..
if that was the case that we fell strongly that we fully understand a particular message in the Quran then we may as well call ourselves all messengers of God...( i am quite sure when reading the Quran we feel strongly about a certain surah and we feel we have got to grips with the message and intent it is relaying)
We are creating havoc when there need not to be one - we are slowly creating division when there needs not to be one...
Let us remember God -
who are we arguing for, we are not arging for Gods sake, God is in no need of our arguements - we are all doing that individually for the sake of our own soul to grant us favour with the good Lord.
we are forgetting tolerance, understanding and patience....
look as far as i am concerned and i said this a while back, - if we focus on God surely we cannot fail, the time and energy it is taking for all these emails to be read, composed would rather in my view be better spent on praising, glorifying, exalting and imploring God to provide us with knowledge and understanding.God is the one who provides guidance, and by His grace He will guide us all.
everything in life is a lesson and it is a opportunity to reflect and see if we are true to what we say we believe in.
i am rather a simplistic person and i have very simple outlooks - and this is my own opinions in the matter.
salam alaykum everyone.
ps: fatima is about the only one that she knows that even with a spell checker - you will still find errors in her correspondence - so if you do find any errors, apologies - but i hope you get the gist of what i am trying to say.
pps: my french is awful - and i would have loved to translate - but i have used some non grammatical lingo that may be hard to grasp in my translate site.
pps: some of you have said for **** to stop email you, then why he still including you in his emails, and also why are you concerned and emailing him back.... lol
alaykum salam everyone.
as usual - if i have offended anyone by my email - it is not intentional - and i apologise, i can only state as i see it - let us remember God, Worship God alone, Remember unity, remember tolerance, and lastly remember We cannot guide anyone at all, God is in charge of everyones guidance.
Fatty Fats
==============================
this has to be said.
Saturday, 9 January 2010
Thank You God, Most Gracious
my lord, i am worried and at the same time i am not worried and then again i am worried that i am not worried.
it is in my nature to worry and to fret but i have started to learn that as i grow older that there is nothing to fear or worry about - for if i trust in thee dear lord then all is as it should be.. everything in life is a lesson for me, it is a development and a chance to redeem myself in thy sight.
i have a longing , i have a dream and it is that which i am quite sure you have given me... i lay patiently for the day with high hopes and and with joyous wait... but whenever i see the possibility of it arising something just happens that leaves me slightly dejected..
but i refuse to be let down because i trust in thee dear Lord, i trust that you will provide for me, i have asked from thee a specific request, a request that only you know, i have asked from thee a longing that only you know, in the face of lifes taunts and friends mocks in the face of heartbreak , i have asked of thee, but i trust that you will provide.
thus, i write this to remind me adetutu, to still hold strong to God. remember your lord has never forgotten you and he has always provided for you. he has showered on you mercy that in your wildest dreams you would have never imagined, you know what i am talking about,
Take heart and gw This ssame God will give you courage to withstand - whatever the journey may be, however the shape takes.
My Lord, many a call have i made to thee asking for the ultimate gift - mercy, forgiveness and acceptance, many a times the void in my heart has done its own calling asking from thee and thee alone.
I have no one to run to, i have no one to ask,
i cannot run to anyone , and i cannot ask anyone but thee - Thee who is my God, My Lord my Provider.
in a way its like bringing it back all over again - when you think you have found something good, but lifes circumstances manage to tear it out from you...
in any case dear lord, can i complain - any bad or mishap that happenes to me is only as a result of my sins nand transgressions - this is the way i see it, becaue if i am honest things do have a way of catching up with you...
nevertheless, dear Lord, you are full of mercy and forgiveness, of this i know and i trust and hope that you shower me with your forgiveness and mercy.
I am all but loosing patience lord I am all but doubting, but i wont, even in the face of friends mockings, even in the face of bleakness... i will trust in thee dear Lord.
i have asked of thee a specific gifit - My own, not any other, but my own - from thee with thy approval, with thy blessings and with thy guidance -there is nothing else better than that. and that which the good Lord does provide is the best for adetutu, however long it takes.
so adetutu, tear yourself away and be firm. have courange and be patient for God has heard your call and he will not let you go, He will give you as he as shown you and the words on your lips will be Thank you God, Most Gracious...
it is in my nature to worry and to fret but i have started to learn that as i grow older that there is nothing to fear or worry about - for if i trust in thee dear lord then all is as it should be.. everything in life is a lesson for me, it is a development and a chance to redeem myself in thy sight.
i have a longing , i have a dream and it is that which i am quite sure you have given me... i lay patiently for the day with high hopes and and with joyous wait... but whenever i see the possibility of it arising something just happens that leaves me slightly dejected..
but i refuse to be let down because i trust in thee dear Lord, i trust that you will provide for me, i have asked from thee a specific request, a request that only you know, i have asked from thee a longing that only you know, in the face of lifes taunts and friends mocks in the face of heartbreak , i have asked of thee, but i trust that you will provide.
thus, i write this to remind me adetutu, to still hold strong to God. remember your lord has never forgotten you and he has always provided for you. he has showered on you mercy that in your wildest dreams you would have never imagined, you know what i am talking about,
Take heart and gw This ssame God will give you courage to withstand - whatever the journey may be, however the shape takes.
My Lord, many a call have i made to thee asking for the ultimate gift - mercy, forgiveness and acceptance, many a times the void in my heart has done its own calling asking from thee and thee alone.
I have no one to run to, i have no one to ask,
i cannot run to anyone , and i cannot ask anyone but thee - Thee who is my God, My Lord my Provider.
in a way its like bringing it back all over again - when you think you have found something good, but lifes circumstances manage to tear it out from you...
in any case dear lord, can i complain - any bad or mishap that happenes to me is only as a result of my sins nand transgressions - this is the way i see it, becaue if i am honest things do have a way of catching up with you...
nevertheless, dear Lord, you are full of mercy and forgiveness, of this i know and i trust and hope that you shower me with your forgiveness and mercy.
I am all but loosing patience lord I am all but doubting, but i wont, even in the face of friends mockings, even in the face of bleakness... i will trust in thee dear Lord.
i have asked of thee a specific gifit - My own, not any other, but my own - from thee with thy approval, with thy blessings and with thy guidance -there is nothing else better than that. and that which the good Lord does provide is the best for adetutu, however long it takes.
so adetutu, tear yourself away and be firm. have courange and be patient for God has heard your call and he will not let you go, He will give you as he as shown you and the words on your lips will be Thank you God, Most Gracious...
Monday, 4 January 2010
Get away.. for shizyyy for really
there are words and there are the associations you make with words.
These are two different concept.
with every word is a mental idea of how you have been conditioned to accept it... so that whenever the word is spoken is invokes in you the previous thought or idea
This plight affects some people i am sure because it affects me.
a lot of it has to do with my mind and how it assimilates information - i remember conversations and events and i replay them in my head - the problem is then when a person has said something and whenever i hear the same phrase or part of phrase or sentence or see something that is associated with a sentence that i have heard, i immediately think back and i replay what was said in my head - wether i agree with the statement or not.
This is what is my problem - and why i keep asking God to protect me from blaspheming against him like others before me have done. The people in my midst are those who sometimes utter words that i am privy to hear, or in my closest environment i am faced with images that i dont agree with, or through songs i get to listen to stataments that i dont agree with - some of them i dont agree with and whenever i am alone and my mind starts doing what it does, and it replays the statement and utterences over and over again in my head.
I have to be able to block my mind out to utterances that i am not aggreable with or better still make a judgement to move away from people who utter such statements around me.
God willing this is a battle i will win and i will be able to train my mind properly.
GoD is my strenght and with Him i find Salvation.
by His grace and with His help i will conquer...
These are two different concept.
with every word is a mental idea of how you have been conditioned to accept it... so that whenever the word is spoken is invokes in you the previous thought or idea
This plight affects some people i am sure because it affects me.
a lot of it has to do with my mind and how it assimilates information - i remember conversations and events and i replay them in my head - the problem is then when a person has said something and whenever i hear the same phrase or part of phrase or sentence or see something that is associated with a sentence that i have heard, i immediately think back and i replay what was said in my head - wether i agree with the statement or not.
This is what is my problem - and why i keep asking God to protect me from blaspheming against him like others before me have done. The people in my midst are those who sometimes utter words that i am privy to hear, or in my closest environment i am faced with images that i dont agree with, or through songs i get to listen to stataments that i dont agree with - some of them i dont agree with and whenever i am alone and my mind starts doing what it does, and it replays the statement and utterences over and over again in my head.
I have to be able to block my mind out to utterances that i am not aggreable with or better still make a judgement to move away from people who utter such statements around me.
God willing this is a battle i will win and i will be able to train my mind properly.
GoD is my strenght and with Him i find Salvation.
by His grace and with His help i will conquer...
Sunday, 3 January 2010
vibe.....
when there is happiness and joy in my heart, i have to give thanks to the creator.
When i am filled with unbridled energy i have to be juilatious and praise my Lord.
today, My heart is singing, My heart is happy, I have energy and I am restless, restless in a good positive vibe sort of a way.
So dear Lord I am grateful and I give you all the Praise.
When i am filled with unbridled energy i have to be juilatious and praise my Lord.
today, My heart is singing, My heart is happy, I have energy and I am restless, restless in a good positive vibe sort of a way.
So dear Lord I am grateful and I give you all the Praise.
i picked up this song and i was moved by its words
1. Be still, my soul; the Lord is on thy side;
Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain;
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In every change He faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul; thy best, thy heavenly, Friend
Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end.
2. Be still, my soul; thy God doth undertake
To guide the future as He has the past.
Thy hope, thy confidence, let nothing shake;
All now mysterious shall be bright at last.
Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain;
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In every change He faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul; thy best, thy heavenly, Friend
Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end.
2. Be still, my soul; thy God doth undertake
To guide the future as He has the past.
Thy hope, thy confidence, let nothing shake;
All now mysterious shall be bright at last.
i have only included the pat the strikes a chord in me - some of the words in ths song i dont understand and some i dont agree with.
and
Because I have been given much, I too must give; Because of thy great bounty, Lord, each day I live. I shall divide my gifts from thee, with every brother that I see who has the need of help from me. Because I have been blessed by thy great love, dear Lord. I'll share thy love again, according to Thy word. I shall give love to those in need; I'll show that love by word and deed: Thus shall my thanks be thanks in deed."
Friday, 1 January 2010
Resolutions, Longings, hoping and aspirations
every year i have formed a habit of naming the year with a theme and this year is not exception.
2008 was a year realisation, 2009 was the year of actualisation and now gw 2010 is the year of fulfillment.
in this year dear lord, i ask for so many things - some i asked for last year and still applies to this year
Strenghten my heart dear Lord, Strenghten me in my faith, for in thy path i choose to walk, glorifying thee always.
Protect me from blaspheming against thee, Protect me from blaspheming people, shield my mind from blasphemous thoughts, Keep it praising thee always
Forgive me Lord from sinning against thee, Keep me away from sinning people, Protect my mind from sinning thoughts against thee, Keep it in devotion to thee always
make me one who prays to thee o lord, my obligation to thee let me keep, grant me steadfastmess in thy service lord, let me forever be devoted to thee
Make me one who gives her charity lord, this obligation I want to keep, help me remember to give to others lord, For your blessings on me are great.
Help me lord to see the truth, holding to thee alone, guide me straight, help me to worship thee O lord, in life and in death devoted to thee
Provide me with understanding Lord, learning your scripture, understanding the meaning, help with wisdom and knowledge lord, teach me Lord and help me to learn
Provide me with patience to withstand lord, lifes struggles, lonliness and whatever may come, Provide me with patience to hold on, seeking to thee when things get too tough
in the face of all adversity dear lord, let me never forget thee, but let me turn to thee and feel you near, in the face of progress and jubilations let me not forget thee, let me not turn arrogant let me praise thee still
My ego - keep in check O lord, let it not lead me to sin against thee, make me humble, gentle and softly spoken, let me not rise to the devils bait.
my life is simple and my wants are simple dear lord, but lifes fleeting journeys seek to complicate things, Let me stay true to thee O lord, forever in your debt i will surely be.
Most Gracious -MErcy and forgiveness are some of your attributes and mercy and forgiveness i implore from thee, let me never for a second forget to praise thee, whereever i am whatever i do, Let this heart of mine be devoted to thee, let it never feel proud or arrogant to worship thee.
Protect my mind O lord and protect my head, from thoughts and words and images that i pick up - let my only concern be of worshiping and praising thee.
i am still the simple girl with simple wants, with simple needs and simple thoughts - i am forever grateful for all the blessings and kindness and support and joys and tears of last year i will forever be grateful for the lessons learnt - i hope by your will not to make the same mistakes this year, i hope to worship and praise thee still.
all the good things in life that you provide, my Lord provide for me, keep me praising thee always..
2008 was a year realisation, 2009 was the year of actualisation and now gw 2010 is the year of fulfillment.
in this year dear lord, i ask for so many things - some i asked for last year and still applies to this year
Strenghten my heart dear Lord, Strenghten me in my faith, for in thy path i choose to walk, glorifying thee always.
Protect me from blaspheming against thee, Protect me from blaspheming people, shield my mind from blasphemous thoughts, Keep it praising thee always
Forgive me Lord from sinning against thee, Keep me away from sinning people, Protect my mind from sinning thoughts against thee, Keep it in devotion to thee always
make me one who prays to thee o lord, my obligation to thee let me keep, grant me steadfastmess in thy service lord, let me forever be devoted to thee
Make me one who gives her charity lord, this obligation I want to keep, help me remember to give to others lord, For your blessings on me are great.
Help me lord to see the truth, holding to thee alone, guide me straight, help me to worship thee O lord, in life and in death devoted to thee
Provide me with understanding Lord, learning your scripture, understanding the meaning, help with wisdom and knowledge lord, teach me Lord and help me to learn
Provide me with patience to withstand lord, lifes struggles, lonliness and whatever may come, Provide me with patience to hold on, seeking to thee when things get too tough
in the face of all adversity dear lord, let me never forget thee, but let me turn to thee and feel you near, in the face of progress and jubilations let me not forget thee, let me not turn arrogant let me praise thee still
My ego - keep in check O lord, let it not lead me to sin against thee, make me humble, gentle and softly spoken, let me not rise to the devils bait.
my life is simple and my wants are simple dear lord, but lifes fleeting journeys seek to complicate things, Let me stay true to thee O lord, forever in your debt i will surely be.
Most Gracious -MErcy and forgiveness are some of your attributes and mercy and forgiveness i implore from thee, let me never for a second forget to praise thee, whereever i am whatever i do, Let this heart of mine be devoted to thee, let it never feel proud or arrogant to worship thee.
Protect my mind O lord and protect my head, from thoughts and words and images that i pick up - let my only concern be of worshiping and praising thee.
i am still the simple girl with simple wants, with simple needs and simple thoughts - i am forever grateful for all the blessings and kindness and support and joys and tears of last year i will forever be grateful for the lessons learnt - i hope by your will not to make the same mistakes this year, i hope to worship and praise thee still.
all the good things in life that you provide, my Lord provide for me, keep me praising thee always..
Tuesday, 29 December 2009
Be thou my guardian
To thee I come for your help and guidance. To thee i turn when the voices get strong
My Lord, sometimes it feels as if i am not winning this battle, but i will not loose hope, for i trust in thee and with thee i shall not fail.
The world, the flesh, and Satan dwell
Around the path I tread;
O, save me from the snares of hell,
Thou Quickener of the dead.
Protect me from blaspheming against thee - this is an ever increasing need for me, I beg of thee to give me the strenght and the courage, the will and the fortitude to withstand the error and the mistakes in life, To fight against my Ego and to overcome and make my soul triumphant.
And if I tempted am to sin,
And outward things are strong,
Do Thou, O Lord, keep watch within,
And save my soul from wrong.
With thee, I will not Fail, with thee dear Lord, I cannot go wrong, for if i hold on to thy word, If i walk in truth and if i try my hardest to worship thee, with your help and with your guidance then all will be well.
sometimes i get weak and i get weary, sometimes lifes conditions get me down, But in life yyou have given me Praise for thee, so i can only be thankful for everything. i am still me, My Lord, I am stil lthat young child who is searching for thee, I am still her - Adetutu - My Lord, depart not from me but let your praise flourish in my mind, let if be magnified in my heart -
i am remembering mychildhood Lord, i am thankful..
Be Thou my Guardian and my Guide;
And hear me when I call;
Let not my slippery footsteps slide,
And hold me lest I fall.
And hear me when I call;
Let not my slippery footsteps slide,
And hold me lest I fall.
My Lord, sometimes it feels as if i am not winning this battle, but i will not loose hope, for i trust in thee and with thee i shall not fail.
The world, the flesh, and Satan dwell
Around the path I tread;
O, save me from the snares of hell,
Thou Quickener of the dead.
Protect me from blaspheming against thee - this is an ever increasing need for me, I beg of thee to give me the strenght and the courage, the will and the fortitude to withstand the error and the mistakes in life, To fight against my Ego and to overcome and make my soul triumphant.
And if I tempted am to sin,
And outward things are strong,
Do Thou, O Lord, keep watch within,
And save my soul from wrong.
sometimes i get weak and i get weary, sometimes lifes conditions get me down, But in life yyou have given me Praise for thee, so i can only be thankful for everything. i am still me, My Lord, I am stil lthat young child who is searching for thee, I am still her - Adetutu - My Lord, depart not from me but let your praise flourish in my mind, let if be magnified in my heart -
i am remembering mychildhood Lord, i am thankful..
Still let me ever watch and pray,
And feel that I am frail;
that if the tempter cross my way,
Yet he may not prevail
And feel that I am frail;
that if the tempter cross my way,
Yet he may not prevail
Abide with me
Abide with me; fast falls the eventide;
The darkness deepens; Lord with me abide.
When other helpers fail and comforts flee,
Help of the helpless, O abide with me.
Swift to its close ebbs out life’s little day;
Earth’s joys grow dim; its glories pass away;
Change and decay in all around I see;
O Thou who changest not, abide with me.
I need Thy presence every passing hour.
What but Thy grace can foil the tempter’s power?
Who, like Thyself, my guide and stay can be?
Through cloud and sunshine, Lord, abide with me.
I fear no foe, with Thee at hand to bless;
Ills have no weight, and tears no bitterness.
Where is death’s sting? Where, grave, thy victory?
I triumph still, if Thou abide with me.
Today this prayer holds me dear to my God. I am lenghts to remember my time of need when all was fleeting before me when i felt that i knew no tomorrow, when life seemed bleak, and when atthe start of ramadan for me for that year i felt sorrow and unhappiness.
I dont know where i saw the prayer/prayer, but when i read it it warmed my heart with its simple message. it has always been a song that i have in my head, i just cant remember where i picked it up from
Abide with me,.. which for me translates Be thou near to Me O lord. Let not your spirit depart from me, but Guide me to thy path and keep me in thy sight.
I used to ( and i still do to some extent) sing this song ( there is more to it that what i have written but the ones that strike a chord within me is what i have posted)
then i am looking at this part in more detail - When other helpers fail and comfortd flee -
Which makes me think, which other helper is there other than The Almighty? so in some way i am not wholly accepting of this verse - because it implies that you seek help from other than God... which is virtually impossible becaue my belief of that God is the Almighty, He is the one who creates and who has the all controlling will and power There is nothing that is done on earth or in the heavens except by his knowledge and will. So whoever we may feel we run to to help us, let us remember that God is the one who has provided that help, so when we are full of thanks for that person, that entity, we should try to remember that the true thanks should go to theCcreator who made that help possible.
I am at great pains to Thank Thee o Lord for the help and assistance you have given me in my life. For the kindness you have shown me and for the mercy and direction you give me.
I will also ask thee o lord - Protect me from blaspheming against thee like others before me have done, mine is a many mistakes and error that my soul commits, But i ask thee O lord to pardon me and forgive me, to redeem me and accept me in thy service. I beg thee O lord to keep me from sinning against thee, for these sins are the things which draw me away from thee, they are the elements which increases my ego and arrogance, which cuts short my prayers but Lord i implore thee , knowing that you are forgiver and Merciful, Knowing that you provide for those in need and knowing that you are My Lord, My God. Save that thou should not accept me and forgive me, I will truly be lost.
My Lord help me, for i really need your help, keep close to me and in my heart and my mind, let your rememberance reign supreme, Let my heart glorify thee and praise thee,
it is a battle that is coming and going - I need thy Help O Lord..With your assiatance then i have no foes, I have no fight and i have no enemies. My Lord, i seek thee. Help me to know your truth to accept your truth, help me to worship thee as you should be worshiped, Help me and guide me in thy path.
The darkness deepens; Lord with me abide.
When other helpers fail and comforts flee,
Help of the helpless, O abide with me.
Swift to its close ebbs out life’s little day;
Earth’s joys grow dim; its glories pass away;
Change and decay in all around I see;
O Thou who changest not, abide with me.
I need Thy presence every passing hour.
What but Thy grace can foil the tempter’s power?
Who, like Thyself, my guide and stay can be?
Through cloud and sunshine, Lord, abide with me.
I fear no foe, with Thee at hand to bless;
Ills have no weight, and tears no bitterness.
Where is death’s sting? Where, grave, thy victory?
I triumph still, if Thou abide with me.
Today this prayer holds me dear to my God. I am lenghts to remember my time of need when all was fleeting before me when i felt that i knew no tomorrow, when life seemed bleak, and when atthe start of ramadan for me for that year i felt sorrow and unhappiness.
I dont know where i saw the prayer/prayer, but when i read it it warmed my heart with its simple message. it has always been a song that i have in my head, i just cant remember where i picked it up from
Abide with me,.. which for me translates Be thou near to Me O lord. Let not your spirit depart from me, but Guide me to thy path and keep me in thy sight.
I used to ( and i still do to some extent) sing this song ( there is more to it that what i have written but the ones that strike a chord within me is what i have posted)
then i am looking at this part in more detail - When other helpers fail and comfortd flee -
Which makes me think, which other helper is there other than The Almighty? so in some way i am not wholly accepting of this verse - because it implies that you seek help from other than God... which is virtually impossible becaue my belief of that God is the Almighty, He is the one who creates and who has the all controlling will and power There is nothing that is done on earth or in the heavens except by his knowledge and will. So whoever we may feel we run to to help us, let us remember that God is the one who has provided that help, so when we are full of thanks for that person, that entity, we should try to remember that the true thanks should go to theCcreator who made that help possible.
I am at great pains to Thank Thee o Lord for the help and assistance you have given me in my life. For the kindness you have shown me and for the mercy and direction you give me.
I will also ask thee o lord - Protect me from blaspheming against thee like others before me have done, mine is a many mistakes and error that my soul commits, But i ask thee O lord to pardon me and forgive me, to redeem me and accept me in thy service. I beg thee O lord to keep me from sinning against thee, for these sins are the things which draw me away from thee, they are the elements which increases my ego and arrogance, which cuts short my prayers but Lord i implore thee , knowing that you are forgiver and Merciful, Knowing that you provide for those in need and knowing that you are My Lord, My God. Save that thou should not accept me and forgive me, I will truly be lost.
My Lord help me, for i really need your help, keep close to me and in my heart and my mind, let your rememberance reign supreme, Let my heart glorify thee and praise thee,
it is a battle that is coming and going - I need thy Help O Lord..With your assiatance then i have no foes, I have no fight and i have no enemies. My Lord, i seek thee. Help me to know your truth to accept your truth, help me to worship thee as you should be worshiped, Help me and guide me in thy path.
Saturday, 26 December 2009
Birthday Wish
so my bday had been and gone... booooo hooo hoooo
do i wish it could come back...
boo hoo hoo
lololol
nah
i had a day like any other day - i wanted a loq key day but i got half of that...
all in all no complaints, but dear Lord let me officially say thank you for a lovely day..
for the lovely praises paid currency onto me by my friends and well wishers from near and far, those who remembered those that i didnt even think would ever remember and those i expected it from and probably those that i expected it from but didnt call me.. lolol
dear lord I am grateful for all of them..
My dad remembered and he called me, that too was lovely - but with that i get sadness.. that is another story.....
my favourite brother remembered too and called me..
my favourite sister remembered and called me
i had a special birthday song - that was so sweet and nice...
so i am 30 - i am officially an adult.... and i have to make a birthday wish,
My birthday wish is very looooooooooooooooooooooooooonggggggg - i wish from the good Lord,Mercy , Forgiveness for all my sins and acceptance, guidance and righteousness and devotion in my heart for Him, and the ability to worship Him as He ought to be worshiped, and protection from blashpheming against Him, I also wish for peace in my life, and all the good things which the good Lord does give, I wish the good Lord, pardons me and overlooks my many mistakes and errors, keeps be from sinning against Him and keeps me on the straight path, always remembering to glorify and praise and exalt and magnify, to never make me ashamed to worship Him, to grant me by His infinite Grace and Mercy, paradise so that when i depart from this earth, the first thing i will hear is - Welcome into my service, Welcome into my paradise."
I am very grateful God that i feel loved, i am thankful for your care and attention these past 30 years, for indeed God i have to give thanks, For the tears of laughter and happiness, For the tears of regret and sadness, for the tears of lonliness and heartaches, I am grateful dear Lord for them all. For in every tear of happiness is a joy i rediscover, and in every tear of sadness is a blessing i am not aware of.
When i look back at my life 30 years on earth, whilst though i may see my many mistakes and sins displayed before me, I also am glad to see and glimpse my progress and I pray the good Lord gives me more progress and direction to his path... it is easy for me to say i wish i never done this i wish i never done that, or i wish i had done this or done that.... but in order for me to learn( being the stubborn mule that i am) i have to go through it all, and whilst i can say, looking back, from my childhood, to my adulthood from my emotional scars, from my vices, from my longings and my yearnings, from my hopes and aspirations - dear Lord all of it is part of my own unique journey and my own story - I cannot complain and i cannot blame anyone at all..
if there is blame, then the misfortune of blame falls on me cos i made the mistakes - but i thank God that i am able to learn from them.( i hope gw that i have learnt from them)
My Life is not all doom and gloom, by all means it is not, what it is - is a life by any other measure - it is ups and downs, topsey turvey and looped outwards - IT is ADETUTU's destiny -
i love my life and i have no complaints, no regrets ( well if i am honest, i wish i may have handled things a bit better on somethings) but if i ditnt go through things how will i learn from them, how will i some through and say Thank you most Gracious,
30 years is an achievement and for real Most High - THANK YOU, - For all Praise is yours my Lord , ALL Authority, ALL kingship, and Glory . In this life and in the hereafter, Be you Glorified Most Gracious Lord..
do i wish it could come back...
boo hoo hoo
lololol
nah
i had a day like any other day - i wanted a loq key day but i got half of that...
all in all no complaints, but dear Lord let me officially say thank you for a lovely day..
for the lovely praises paid currency onto me by my friends and well wishers from near and far, those who remembered those that i didnt even think would ever remember and those i expected it from and probably those that i expected it from but didnt call me.. lolol
dear lord I am grateful for all of them..
My dad remembered and he called me, that too was lovely - but with that i get sadness.. that is another story.....
my favourite brother remembered too and called me..
my favourite sister remembered and called me
i had a special birthday song - that was so sweet and nice...
so i am 30 - i am officially an adult.... and i have to make a birthday wish,
My birthday wish is very looooooooooooooooooooooooooonggggggg - i wish from the good Lord,Mercy , Forgiveness for all my sins and acceptance, guidance and righteousness and devotion in my heart for Him, and the ability to worship Him as He ought to be worshiped, and protection from blashpheming against Him, I also wish for peace in my life, and all the good things which the good Lord does give, I wish the good Lord, pardons me and overlooks my many mistakes and errors, keeps be from sinning against Him and keeps me on the straight path, always remembering to glorify and praise and exalt and magnify, to never make me ashamed to worship Him, to grant me by His infinite Grace and Mercy, paradise so that when i depart from this earth, the first thing i will hear is - Welcome into my service, Welcome into my paradise."
I am very grateful God that i feel loved, i am thankful for your care and attention these past 30 years, for indeed God i have to give thanks, For the tears of laughter and happiness, For the tears of regret and sadness, for the tears of lonliness and heartaches, I am grateful dear Lord for them all. For in every tear of happiness is a joy i rediscover, and in every tear of sadness is a blessing i am not aware of.
When i look back at my life 30 years on earth, whilst though i may see my many mistakes and sins displayed before me, I also am glad to see and glimpse my progress and I pray the good Lord gives me more progress and direction to his path... it is easy for me to say i wish i never done this i wish i never done that, or i wish i had done this or done that.... but in order for me to learn( being the stubborn mule that i am) i have to go through it all, and whilst i can say, looking back, from my childhood, to my adulthood from my emotional scars, from my vices, from my longings and my yearnings, from my hopes and aspirations - dear Lord all of it is part of my own unique journey and my own story - I cannot complain and i cannot blame anyone at all..
if there is blame, then the misfortune of blame falls on me cos i made the mistakes - but i thank God that i am able to learn from them.( i hope gw that i have learnt from them)
My Life is not all doom and gloom, by all means it is not, what it is - is a life by any other measure - it is ups and downs, topsey turvey and looped outwards - IT is ADETUTU's destiny -
i love my life and i have no complaints, no regrets ( well if i am honest, i wish i may have handled things a bit better on somethings) but if i ditnt go through things how will i learn from them, how will i some through and say Thank you most Gracious,
30 years is an achievement and for real Most High - THANK YOU, - For all Praise is yours my Lord , ALL Authority, ALL kingship, and Glory . In this life and in the hereafter, Be you Glorified Most Gracious Lord..
Wednesday, 23 December 2009
from my sister to me on my birthday
Dear Lord, thanks is due for so many thing, but right now thanks is due to thee, for it is good to know that you are loved..
I thank you dear Lord for my sister - Abiola - I do lover her very much... she is the only family member that i feel connected to...
I am grateful for her and I am thankful to thee o Lord for the kind praises which she has dished on me this day....
While in so many ways I dont feel i deserve all these praises for in so many ways in my life i see failure - in my stubborness and my headstrongness and my lack of patience but i also see success, in that i am able to call the my Lord and do the things i have always wanted to do.
So dear lord this is a thank you for the birthday wishes..
my sister wrote
wow!!!!...is it really that time of year again???...i can't believe it ..you are going to be 30 in less than 3hours ...well 2 hours really if you follow naija time..*SINGS..happy birthday to you..happy birthday to you..happy birthday dear tutu...happy birthday to youuuuuuuuuu. For she's a jolly good fellow..for she's a jolly good fellow..for she's a jolly good felloooooooooooooooow..and so says all of us ..and so say all of us ..hoooray!!..and so say all of us ..hooray!!..for she's a jolly good fellow ..for she's a jolly good fellow ..for she's a jolly good felloooooooooooooooooooooooow aaaaaaaannnnnnnndddddd so say all of us..HIP HIP HIP HOORAY!!..HIP HIP HIP HOORAY!!!*SINGS in my croaky not soo nice voice ..but then who cares!!!!
Men madam tut...30 years on earth...a great acheivement ..i want to thank the Almighty Allah for your life and for making us sisters...we have been through soo much together growing up and faced challenges separately..despite the lack of communication between us ..mainly due to me ..i confess.. i always that you love me very much almost as much as i love you..sometimes i see your face in kitty kat...and it makes me smile..u really need to meet her..there is something about her that reminds me of you..perhaps it is your vivacious nature..generousity and warmth..your irrepresible nature..always bouncing back like a rubber ball after facing challenges that would have dwarfed most of us. Perhaps it is your unique sense of style..lack of conformity and unwavering self confidence which i have always admired ..your ability to grasp complex and simple concepts quickly and a love for life and learning.
Tomorrow is your special day and i hope it finds you extremely well..happy..full of internal peace..may you always know the favour of the Lord and may He guide your every step..i pray that the very best that life on this earth and the hereafter is bestowed upon you and may you have more days to celebrate.
You have always come across as a happy child even in the face of soo much emotional turmoil..you always manage to keep a smile on your face, i want you to remember that and may Lord grant you all your heart's desires and eternal happiness.
love you lots and lots and i can never forget all your selfless acts of generosity and kindness towards me as a child and even as an adult when i had nothing to my name, i thank you from the bottom of my heart and i hope one day to repay your kindness..i hope you have the very best of birthdays and please come and see us soon
lots of love
biola and kitty kat
ps kitty kat send special sloppy kisses to warm your heart this cold cold winter
I thank you dear Lord for my sister - Abiola - I do lover her very much... she is the only family member that i feel connected to...
I am grateful for her and I am thankful to thee o Lord for the kind praises which she has dished on me this day....
While in so many ways I dont feel i deserve all these praises for in so many ways in my life i see failure - in my stubborness and my headstrongness and my lack of patience but i also see success, in that i am able to call the my Lord and do the things i have always wanted to do.
So dear lord this is a thank you for the birthday wishes..
my sister wrote
wow!!!!...is it really that time of year again???...i can't believe it ..you are going to be 30 in less than 3hours ...well 2 hours really if you follow naija time..*SINGS..happy birthday to you..happy birthday to you..happy birthday dear tutu...happy birthday to youuuuuuuuuu. For she's a jolly good fellow..for she's a jolly good fellow..for she's a jolly good felloooooooooooooooow..and so says all of us ..and so say all of us ..hoooray!!..and so say all of us ..hooray!!..for she's a jolly good fellow ..for she's a jolly good fellow ..for she's a jolly good felloooooooooooooooooooooooow aaaaaaaannnnnnnndddddd so say all of us..HIP HIP HIP HOORAY!!..HIP HIP HIP HOORAY!!!*SINGS in my croaky not soo nice voice ..but then who cares!!!!
Men madam tut...30 years on earth...a great acheivement ..i want to thank the Almighty Allah for your life and for making us sisters...we have been through soo much together growing up and faced challenges separately..despite the lack of communication between us ..mainly due to me ..i confess.. i always that you love me very much almost as much as i love you..sometimes i see your face in kitty kat...and it makes me smile..u really need to meet her..there is something about her that reminds me of you..perhaps it is your vivacious nature..generousity and warmth..your irrepresible nature..always bouncing back like a rubber ball after facing challenges that would have dwarfed most of us. Perhaps it is your unique sense of style..lack of conformity and unwavering self confidence which i have always admired ..your ability to grasp complex and simple concepts quickly and a love for life and learning.
Tomorrow is your special day and i hope it finds you extremely well..happy..full of internal peace..may you always know the favour of the Lord and may He guide your every step..i pray that the very best that life on this earth and the hereafter is bestowed upon you and may you have more days to celebrate.
You have always come across as a happy child even in the face of soo much emotional turmoil..you always manage to keep a smile on your face, i want you to remember that and may Lord grant you all your heart's desires and eternal happiness.
love you lots and lots and i can never forget all your selfless acts of generosity and kindness towards me as a child and even as an adult when i had nothing to my name, i thank you from the bottom of my heart and i hope one day to repay your kindness..i hope you have the very best of birthdays and please come and see us soon
lots of love
biola and kitty kat
ps kitty kat send special sloppy kisses to warm your heart this cold cold winter
Thank you dear Lord, I am grateful.
Sunday, 20 December 2009
i canot just help mysel because this one if for me to remember. i am really LOL
The question started off in an email which reads:
Peace All,
I was just enjoying being able to read Submission.org tonight when I chanced onto the question: can a woman lead a congregation with men present?
Whilst I have no great need or desire for this to happen, I was intrigued by the intellectual argument from the people at Submission.org. They said that to expect women to be able to lead a congregation with men present would be an innovation, based on the argument that all the Islamic practices are passed down to us from previous generations. They go on to use the prayer as an example, that we are not given all the details in the Koran. However, the mathematical miracle supports the correct method of praying. There is nothing in the Koran to support the idea that women cannot lead a congregation with men present - or is there?
I am interested in what the rest of you think.
Hope you are all well.
===============================
The reply which made me crack up was:
ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO LEAD THE FRIDAY CONGREGATIONAL PRAYER, BECAUSE AS $$$$$ SAYS, "QURAN DOES NOT PROHIBIT IT."?
Quran does not prohibit us to eat some strange creature in the depths of the sea, but eating it is not going to happen
Quran does not prohibit us to go to the polar star, but going there is not going to happen.
Similarly, Quran does not prohibit letting a woman lead the friday congregational prayer, but it is not going to happen.
So, why does it not happen among the believers that a woman lead a friday congregational prayer?
It doesn't happen because the righteousness of the most righteous man brings twice as much benefits as the righteousness of the most righteous woman (4:11). What do I mean by this? I don't mean that a woman is half a man. Here is what I mean:
The 100 meter running world record for the fastest man is 9.58 seconds, while the same record for women is 10.49 seconds. As you can see the difference is not twice as much, but if the fastest man would compete against the fastest woman a hundred times, he would most likely win twice as many times.
Similarly, let's say that you give a 1,000 dollars to a man and 1,000 dollars to a woman. Let's say that you let them save it in two different banks. Let's say that because of the interest, the first bank returns 1040 dollars to the man, and the other bank 1030 dollars to the woman. As you can see the difference is only 10 dollars, but if they put the returned money which they gained back to their same separate banks, after 80 years, the man will have twice as much money as the woman. He will have 20,000 dollars while the woman will have 10,000 dollars.
There is a hadith which says that Mohammad saw Hell and he told them that most of the people in Hell were women (I happen to have heard this, but I don't base my life on it). In fact, Mohammad saw the surface of hell, (he didn't have x-ray vision to see inside of it) (19:71). So yes, the surface of hell is mostly women, but the depth of hell is mostly men. No woman can be as bad as Hitler, and no woman can be as good as Abraham. Sodom and Gomorrah were men sleeping with men. And if you let the most righteous men compete against the most righteous women, in the long run after about 40 years all the men will beat women in leadership. Leadership among submitters is naturally chosen by God based on righteousness (49:13).
If you pair every righteous woman with a righteous man randomly, in almost half of the cases the woman will be more righteous than a man, and in just a little bit more than half of the cases the man will be more righteous than the woman. However, if you pair the most righteous man in a group of submitters with the most righteous woman in a group of submitters, the most righteous man in each group will ALWAYS be more righteous than the most righteous counterpart woman in each group.
This is why it will not happen that a woman leads a Friday Congragational Prayer. The Quran says to disregard those who are less righteous (7:199). Disregarding means that you don't go after what a person says, but you let him come after what you say. As you can see, because the believers follow this law, gradually all of them will start going after the most righteous, and the less righteous will come after them.
If a very big group of submitters is led by a woman, than the group has most likely not been created naturally, but it has been created with schemes, and half-evil intentions.
Gender is not the only parameter which affects the extremeness of righteousness and extremeness of evil. Other things which affect it are nose size, body hair, body size, etc. In other words, even though a believer is a believer regardless of these things, there are more chances that a believer with more body hair, bigger nose, and bigger body size will be slightly more righteous than the other believer without those features. The opposite is also true, a disbeliever with a bigger nose, more body hair, and bigger body size is worse than a disbeliever without those features. This is why the Jews and Arabs are nations of prophets and nations of extreme evils (5:82, 9:98).
As you can see, God is not a racist, but before we came to this world He offered us to take tests with different levels of risk. Each of us chose a test (our life fate), and those souls who chose higher levels of risk were put into bodies with bigger noses, more body hair, and bigger body sizes (32:9, 40:21). This does not mean that they will pass the test successfully, but it means that if they pass it they will on average score higher than others, and if they don't they will score worse than others. "They put more money in their bet."
This is why XXXX can not be a leader. If she goes to hell, chances are that it will be mild hell, and if she goes to heaven, chances are that it will be mild heaven. And if she doesn't agree to go to the mild heaven because she thinks that she is so special to deserve the higher heaven, she will go to the mild hell. This implies that it is quite strange that she was the first to express her opinion about me and not the last.
To conclude, it simply does not happen that a woman lead a group of righteous people in their friday congregational prayer. If there is such a case, the group leaders are not righteous.
However, what may happen among submitters is this:
Let's say a woman found something very interesting regarding a Quranic issue. She calls one of the submitters on the telephone or sends him an e-mail to tell him about it. He looks at it, agrees with it, and thinks that this is very important to discuss in the next Friday sermon. He starts the sermon and immediately says, "She (whatever the name may be) has found some very important and interesting information and can you please share it with us since I don't remember every detail now." She can take almost all the sermon explaining it from the same spot where she was sitting for the prayer, and in the end the male leader simply says, "Let's repent." So, actually it is the female who gave most of the information, but the male made the decision whether the information was relevant and worth talking about. If she says something contrary to what is right, the male might interrupt her, and she has no right to disagree even if she thinks that she is right.. She may talk about the issue after the prayer.
====================
and my reply was
Salam alaykum, wot does aportioning a will have 2 do wit righteousness? 4-11 is quite clear verse in terms of its context as is the verse before it and after it. By your own logic using verse 4-12 a righteous woman is equivalent to half a righteous man then? Have you forgotten dat we are all equal in the sight of God? Let me refer you to verse 3-195. your analagy is very interesting you know bt i am grateful to God that there are clear verses that are straight forward and 4-11 is one of them as is 3-195. Lets not take the word of God out of context and use it to justify or explain our personal agendas. True Guidance belongs to the Most Gracious and this is a perfect example. So tell me why it cant happen that we eat a creature from the sea? as to dawns question, my view is thus- yes there is nothing in the quran dat prohibits women from leading prayer, but it doesnt mean it cant be done, depends if the community praying together have no objections- at
the end of the day, unity and peace must flourish and besides does it matter who leads the prayer? As long as the prayer is dedicated to God and one is in a fit state to lead the prayer?. I am failing to see your grasp of 19.71. Every single one must see hell. So have you seen hell that you are able to say who is in it, male or female- it does not matter. Hell is a certainty wen we are summoned, it will be presented and we all see it. When are we summoned! On the day of ressurection.. Now unless you have had your ressurection before us all and you can comfortably say that he she that and this are going to hell. ?? God is Judge and God is the one who decides the fate of every one of us. i am reading 49.13 and i am failing to reconcile what is translated and what you have written. 49.13 does not mention leadership so i am struggling to see from where your notion that leadership implies righteousness? Righteousness is for God to decide ultimately and by
interpose you can be a good leader and not be the most righteous person there or looking at it in another way, you can be a righteous person and not be a natural leader- look at moses for example. Was supported by God with by teaming wit Aaron. Also verse 7-199, you shall resort to pardon, advocate righteousness and DISREGARD THE IGNORANT. Are you infering that being less righteous is being ignorant.. please ellaborate, what is written is clear, what is translated is clear bt i am failing to see how and why you have put a spin on it to justify your stance. Verse 32.9 is talking about creation of man, so where is the body part and how having a big part implies a particular destiny for you. In case you have forgotten let me refer you to a verse 49.13 - o people, we created you from the same male and female and renderd you distinct people and tribes that you may recognise one another. The best among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is
Omniscient, Cognisant. by the way who is suggesting that XXX is a leader, would that not be up to the wider group to decide this? ******, i feel you are wrong to insinuate what you wrote. You strikd me that you have a personal aversion to XXXX and i will respectfuly say to you that you should keep yourself in check because it is bringing about an unpleasant side of you. It is not for you to say, think, or make suggestions where anyone will end up on judgement day. You are not Their creator. Worry about your own neck and leave each person to worry about theirs. i am really fascinated at your 'theory of what affects the extremeness of righteousness' of people. So apart from gender, (bearing in mind that we are all equal in d sight of God, male or female) and bodyparts( i dont know where this notion is from bt i am intrigued) what else? Sent wit the utmost respect and affection fats. Ps- pls read verses aftr seeking refuge frm God and in the name of God
==============
then the originator of the email wrote
Thanks for your reply. The only reply!! Where are the submitters?
You point out that the best among us is the most righteous (49;13). However, how do we know that the best is referring to the male of the species. There are many verses in the Koran that remind us that the male and the female are equal (3:195).
You say 7:199 tells us to disregard the ignorant. How do we know that the ignorant here is a reference to women and even if it is, if men and women are equal then women cannot be simply cast aside and disregarded as ignorant! This feels like the situation of the women in Saudi Arabia who are completely disregarded by the men. Surely you don't mean this. I can understand why the men receive more of a share of wills etc., because they are the ones who will assume the role of provider. This does not make them intellectually superior to women, it just means that God has assigned them the steerers of the ship. As you point out the Koran speaks of a woman who ruled a country. This woman was surely superior in some way to the men over whom she ruled. And surely she was the most powerful of all the people in the land - there could be no man who was more powerful than her.
You say there are many things the Koran doesn't speak of and yet they will never happen. When I sent this email I was thinking of men having their foreskin removed. This used to be thought of as part of Islam. The Koran has no opinion on this, as far as I have read, therefore those people who call themselves muslim and continue to regard this as good practice are breaking no law.
In terms of my point of behaviours being supported by the numerical miracle, I am thinking of things that have struck me such as Surah 2:222 where menstruation is spoken of. To me, it is the numbers here more than the words which give us information. I like to think that the numbers here represent the amount of days it takes for a woman to be clean from the start to the finish of her menstruation - add all the 2s together to get 8.
I would like to think there was concrete evidence to look at to say simply and firmly that a woman cannot lead the congregation.
Looking forward to your reply.
=======================
AT THIS TIME I AM REALLY CRACKING UP... with laughter rolling my body on the floor
then the reply came
I think that most of your questions which you ask are asked prematurely. There are people who need help with honest questions, and let's solve the real issues. UK is a female oriented society, and your questions will put the submitters in an uneasy position. I haven't decided yet whether it is smarter to ignore your future questions or to answer them. Your questions are like asking Moses whether Pharaoh is bad, and Pharaoh is there.
The case of Sheba is a clear indication that a woman leader can not survive as righteous (27:43). It is an example how disbelievers like to choose a woman as their leader because they can control them easier. She submitted with Solmon, and not alone (27:44). Only when she lost her leadership because she was defeated by Solomon did she manage to become a Submitter (27:44).
The same case is with Mary. Actually, one of the special missions of Zacharia was to be Mary's guardian. This is because she had a mission to spend her time in the sanctuary since God had told her to go to the temple. There is no example in the Quran of a leading woman as a submitter. But there are examples of leading women disbelievers, such as Sheba.
Regarding whether men and women are equal. Men are men and women are women (3:36). Are an apple and a pear equal? Men and women are equal to one another (4:25). This means that a woman is as valuable to a man as a man is valuable to a woman.
And if these things are making you feel uneasy @@@ and Fatima, it is partly because you are women. Jesus had 12 men disciples. The prophets and the messengers are men. Martyrs are mostly men. Soldiers who strive (fight) are mostly men (4:95). Men are the providers, and this means that God generally makes them richer because it wouldn't be smart for a poor person to provide for a richer person since it would be the opposite of charity. And because men are generally richer (in a true submitting society), then submitting men are generally better (16:75). This is not a guarantee that a specific man will necessarily be better than a specific woman. I'm afraid, that if you don't feel happy with this arrangement (4:34) you might leave some empty space in Heaven for the Arab women (66:11), and you have left a lot of empty space for %%%%%.
Please, just submit. Why is it so hard? I understand that a lot of you have made an ego for yourself, because your fathers have taught you something which is not right, and you have achieved to understand the truth despite what they told you. Now you want to prove them wrong. They were men, but that's not why they were wrong; that is why they were deeply wrong. Are you afraid that you will be treated unfairly again? (24:50). That's not what Fatima, the daughter of Mohammad, would say, and that's not what Mary said to Zacharia. They were happy with the proper arrangement.
If the Quran says that women should obey their righteous husbands, than I will say the same thing without fair of being blamed. If you think this sounds bad in UK, than don't ask me about those issues. I'm pretty sure that Mohammad sounded more outdated about women but he treated his wife (anyone of them) better than Rashad. Rashad was saying those things in such a political manner because he knew that there are submitting women being oppressed by "muslim" men all over the world, and what he said is not in contradiction with Quran. The Quran says the glass is half full, and Rashad said that the glass is half empty. He spoke the truth. Your questions are indeed disfavoring and hurting to any women with a traditional muslim husband, because this will give their husbands a justification to oppress them. There are still more submitting women with "muslim' husbands, than there are submitting women with submitting men. Please don't heart them. I'm sounding different from Rashad in these e-mails to distinguish those women who became submitters because it suited them from those who became submitters because they love to worship God alone. Don't be surprised, if you hear me sound like Rashad in front of "muslims" and western media.
Just get over it. You should obey your husband, if he is a submitter. Really, what would he order you? Honey, come to bed! Honey, you can go to your job whenever you have to! Honey, let's go to the Friday prayer! Is this really something a woman does not like to obey?
I'm pretty sure that #### doesn't ask (((((( to wear his socks for him, or wash his feet.
Fatima, appointing a will has to do with righteousness, because God is just.
Leadership does have to do with righteousness in a community of submitters (38:47). It does not have to do with righteousness in other communities. In other communities, it has to do with fame and richness.
The word ignorant means "not knowledgeable". If you take two people with exactly the same characteristics and exactly in the same circumstances, except that one of them is more knowledgeable. The one who is more knowledgeable is more righteous. This does not mean that if you take two people at random that the more knowledgeable is more righteous.
Regarding Homa's leadership - It was Wael or someone else who called her a leader and she and others did not deny it.
Regarding body parts - Our appearance reflects our initial decision before we came to this earth. it does not determine our destiny. It shows how we chose to start the test, and not how we will end it. We will be reward by how we end. But our test is designed by how we started, and our body reflects how we started. We started when we chose the test.
Ok, so why are our eyes above our nose? Why is our nose above our mouth. Why do we have two eyes, and not two mouths? Nothing is random. Everything in this world is a reflection of what happened in Heaven. There is a reason for everything. You will understand these things some day (18:68).
Regarding the strange creature of the sea - Yes you can eat one of them, but there are more of them which people have never seen. It just happens that they will not eat them. Similarly, it just happens that a woman does not lead the prayer among submitters (unless they are all women and children in a group).
I don't know whether I answered all your questions.
===============
really i am cracking up as i am amused at great lenghts
then i replied and for me, when jibberish is talking you just ignore it... this is my last topic on the matter
salam alaykum,
ighteousness and will, if you failed to see the point i was making i will refresh it for you.
the context in which the verse is translated has nowt to do with your evaluation "---the righteousness of the most righteous man brings twice as much benefits as the righteousness of the most righteous woman (4:11)"
you have made reference to a verse in the Quran talking about apportioning will, and you then take it out of context and impose it on your own evaluation... i am lost on that..
as with the othe rverses which you have also taken out of context... but if that is your understanding of the Quran then fair enuff for you..
anyhow to each is own...
this is not a men vs women issue by all accounts, for me what it is , is truth and how you are infereing things in relation to the Quran which i feel are clear in intent and context and how you spin them to relate to something else...... in anycase God provides meaning and understanding of the Quran... whatever you think if it works for you.. good on you..
this theory about body parts, i am really finding it very amusing... and please dont mind me saying how your own features are lost on you or you hav not looked in the mirror lately?
when you point one finger te others are pointing back at you...
**** as usual your replies amuse me if not anything.. as i have said before you never cease to amaze me - i just love watching the way you operate, it is interesting to watch and see how it will eventually enfold.. you are slowly drawing in other people into this making your audience bigger, but i am waiting to see if they fall for the bait...
Salam akaykum....
I have omitted the names... ***** in my view is the one whose reply is cracking me up with laughter.
XXXX is a particular womam that i feel he has issues with
@@@@@ is the person who started thetopic in the first instance
#### and ))))) are another married couple that we all know of
%%%%% is another lady that we all know of.
honestly at least i can say if nothing i have a good laugh... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Peace All,
I was just enjoying being able to read Submission.org tonight when I chanced onto the question: can a woman lead a congregation with men present?
Whilst I have no great need or desire for this to happen, I was intrigued by the intellectual argument from the people at Submission.org. They said that to expect women to be able to lead a congregation with men present would be an innovation, based on the argument that all the Islamic practices are passed down to us from previous generations. They go on to use the prayer as an example, that we are not given all the details in the Koran. However, the mathematical miracle supports the correct method of praying. There is nothing in the Koran to support the idea that women cannot lead a congregation with men present - or is there?
I am interested in what the rest of you think.
Hope you are all well.
===============================
The reply which made me crack up was:
ARE WOMEN ALLOWED TO LEAD THE FRIDAY CONGREGATIONAL PRAYER, BECAUSE AS $$$$$ SAYS, "QURAN DOES NOT PROHIBIT IT."?
Quran does not prohibit us to eat some strange creature in the depths of the sea, but eating it is not going to happen
Quran does not prohibit us to go to the polar star, but going there is not going to happen.
Similarly, Quran does not prohibit letting a woman lead the friday congregational prayer, but it is not going to happen.
So, why does it not happen among the believers that a woman lead a friday congregational prayer?
It doesn't happen because the righteousness of the most righteous man brings twice as much benefits as the righteousness of the most righteous woman (4:11). What do I mean by this? I don't mean that a woman is half a man. Here is what I mean:
The 100 meter running world record for the fastest man is 9.58 seconds, while the same record for women is 10.49 seconds. As you can see the difference is not twice as much, but if the fastest man would compete against the fastest woman a hundred times, he would most likely win twice as many times.
Similarly, let's say that you give a 1,000 dollars to a man and 1,000 dollars to a woman. Let's say that you let them save it in two different banks. Let's say that because of the interest, the first bank returns 1040 dollars to the man, and the other bank 1030 dollars to the woman. As you can see the difference is only 10 dollars, but if they put the returned money which they gained back to their same separate banks, after 80 years, the man will have twice as much money as the woman. He will have 20,000 dollars while the woman will have 10,000 dollars.
There is a hadith which says that Mohammad saw Hell and he told them that most of the people in Hell were women (I happen to have heard this, but I don't base my life on it). In fact, Mohammad saw the surface of hell, (he didn't have x-ray vision to see inside of it) (19:71). So yes, the surface of hell is mostly women, but the depth of hell is mostly men. No woman can be as bad as Hitler, and no woman can be as good as Abraham. Sodom and Gomorrah were men sleeping with men. And if you let the most righteous men compete against the most righteous women, in the long run after about 40 years all the men will beat women in leadership. Leadership among submitters is naturally chosen by God based on righteousness (49:13).
If you pair every righteous woman with a righteous man randomly, in almost half of the cases the woman will be more righteous than a man, and in just a little bit more than half of the cases the man will be more righteous than the woman. However, if you pair the most righteous man in a group of submitters with the most righteous woman in a group of submitters, the most righteous man in each group will ALWAYS be more righteous than the most righteous counterpart woman in each group.
This is why it will not happen that a woman leads a Friday Congragational Prayer. The Quran says to disregard those who are less righteous (7:199). Disregarding means that you don't go after what a person says, but you let him come after what you say. As you can see, because the believers follow this law, gradually all of them will start going after the most righteous, and the less righteous will come after them.
If a very big group of submitters is led by a woman, than the group has most likely not been created naturally, but it has been created with schemes, and half-evil intentions.
Gender is not the only parameter which affects the extremeness of righteousness and extremeness of evil. Other things which affect it are nose size, body hair, body size, etc. In other words, even though a believer is a believer regardless of these things, there are more chances that a believer with more body hair, bigger nose, and bigger body size will be slightly more righteous than the other believer without those features. The opposite is also true, a disbeliever with a bigger nose, more body hair, and bigger body size is worse than a disbeliever without those features. This is why the Jews and Arabs are nations of prophets and nations of extreme evils (5:82, 9:98).
As you can see, God is not a racist, but before we came to this world He offered us to take tests with different levels of risk. Each of us chose a test (our life fate), and those souls who chose higher levels of risk were put into bodies with bigger noses, more body hair, and bigger body sizes (32:9, 40:21). This does not mean that they will pass the test successfully, but it means that if they pass it they will on average score higher than others, and if they don't they will score worse than others. "They put more money in their bet."
This is why XXXX can not be a leader. If she goes to hell, chances are that it will be mild hell, and if she goes to heaven, chances are that it will be mild heaven. And if she doesn't agree to go to the mild heaven because she thinks that she is so special to deserve the higher heaven, she will go to the mild hell. This implies that it is quite strange that she was the first to express her opinion about me and not the last.
To conclude, it simply does not happen that a woman lead a group of righteous people in their friday congregational prayer. If there is such a case, the group leaders are not righteous.
However, what may happen among submitters is this:
Let's say a woman found something very interesting regarding a Quranic issue. She calls one of the submitters on the telephone or sends him an e-mail to tell him about it. He looks at it, agrees with it, and thinks that this is very important to discuss in the next Friday sermon. He starts the sermon and immediately says, "She (whatever the name may be) has found some very important and interesting information and can you please share it with us since I don't remember every detail now." She can take almost all the sermon explaining it from the same spot where she was sitting for the prayer, and in the end the male leader simply says, "Let's repent." So, actually it is the female who gave most of the information, but the male made the decision whether the information was relevant and worth talking about. If she says something contrary to what is right, the male might interrupt her, and she has no right to disagree even if she thinks that she is right.. She may talk about the issue after the prayer.
====================
and my reply was
Salam alaykum, wot does aportioning a will have 2 do wit righteousness? 4-11 is quite clear verse in terms of its context as is the verse before it and after it. By your own logic using verse 4-12 a righteous woman is equivalent to half a righteous man then? Have you forgotten dat we are all equal in the sight of God? Let me refer you to verse 3-195. your analagy is very interesting you know bt i am grateful to God that there are clear verses that are straight forward and 4-11 is one of them as is 3-195. Lets not take the word of God out of context and use it to justify or explain our personal agendas. True Guidance belongs to the Most Gracious and this is a perfect example. So tell me why it cant happen that we eat a creature from the sea? as to dawns question, my view is thus- yes there is nothing in the quran dat prohibits women from leading prayer, but it doesnt mean it cant be done, depends if the community praying together have no objections- at
the end of the day, unity and peace must flourish and besides does it matter who leads the prayer? As long as the prayer is dedicated to God and one is in a fit state to lead the prayer?. I am failing to see your grasp of 19.71. Every single one must see hell. So have you seen hell that you are able to say who is in it, male or female- it does not matter. Hell is a certainty wen we are summoned, it will be presented and we all see it. When are we summoned! On the day of ressurection.. Now unless you have had your ressurection before us all and you can comfortably say that he she that and this are going to hell. ?? God is Judge and God is the one who decides the fate of every one of us. i am reading 49.13 and i am failing to reconcile what is translated and what you have written. 49.13 does not mention leadership so i am struggling to see from where your notion that leadership implies righteousness? Righteousness is for God to decide ultimately and by
interpose you can be a good leader and not be the most righteous person there or looking at it in another way, you can be a righteous person and not be a natural leader- look at moses for example. Was supported by God with by teaming wit Aaron. Also verse 7-199, you shall resort to pardon, advocate righteousness and DISREGARD THE IGNORANT. Are you infering that being less righteous is being ignorant.. please ellaborate, what is written is clear, what is translated is clear bt i am failing to see how and why you have put a spin on it to justify your stance. Verse 32.9 is talking about creation of man, so where is the body part and how having a big part implies a particular destiny for you. In case you have forgotten let me refer you to a verse 49.13 - o people, we created you from the same male and female and renderd you distinct people and tribes that you may recognise one another. The best among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is
Omniscient, Cognisant. by the way who is suggesting that XXX is a leader, would that not be up to the wider group to decide this? ******, i feel you are wrong to insinuate what you wrote. You strikd me that you have a personal aversion to XXXX and i will respectfuly say to you that you should keep yourself in check because it is bringing about an unpleasant side of you. It is not for you to say, think, or make suggestions where anyone will end up on judgement day. You are not Their creator. Worry about your own neck and leave each person to worry about theirs. i am really fascinated at your 'theory of what affects the extremeness of righteousness' of people. So apart from gender, (bearing in mind that we are all equal in d sight of God, male or female) and bodyparts( i dont know where this notion is from bt i am intrigued) what else? Sent wit the utmost respect and affection fats. Ps- pls read verses aftr seeking refuge frm God and in the name of God
==============
then the originator of the email wrote
Thanks for your reply. The only reply!! Where are the submitters?
You point out that the best among us is the most righteous (49;13). However, how do we know that the best is referring to the male of the species. There are many verses in the Koran that remind us that the male and the female are equal (3:195).
You say 7:199 tells us to disregard the ignorant. How do we know that the ignorant here is a reference to women and even if it is, if men and women are equal then women cannot be simply cast aside and disregarded as ignorant! This feels like the situation of the women in Saudi Arabia who are completely disregarded by the men. Surely you don't mean this. I can understand why the men receive more of a share of wills etc., because they are the ones who will assume the role of provider. This does not make them intellectually superior to women, it just means that God has assigned them the steerers of the ship. As you point out the Koran speaks of a woman who ruled a country. This woman was surely superior in some way to the men over whom she ruled. And surely she was the most powerful of all the people in the land - there could be no man who was more powerful than her.
You say there are many things the Koran doesn't speak of and yet they will never happen. When I sent this email I was thinking of men having their foreskin removed. This used to be thought of as part of Islam. The Koran has no opinion on this, as far as I have read, therefore those people who call themselves muslim and continue to regard this as good practice are breaking no law.
In terms of my point of behaviours being supported by the numerical miracle, I am thinking of things that have struck me such as Surah 2:222 where menstruation is spoken of. To me, it is the numbers here more than the words which give us information. I like to think that the numbers here represent the amount of days it takes for a woman to be clean from the start to the finish of her menstruation - add all the 2s together to get 8.
I would like to think there was concrete evidence to look at to say simply and firmly that a woman cannot lead the congregation.
Looking forward to your reply.
=======================
AT THIS TIME I AM REALLY CRACKING UP... with laughter rolling my body on the floor
then the reply came
I think that most of your questions which you ask are asked prematurely. There are people who need help with honest questions, and let's solve the real issues. UK is a female oriented society, and your questions will put the submitters in an uneasy position. I haven't decided yet whether it is smarter to ignore your future questions or to answer them. Your questions are like asking Moses whether Pharaoh is bad, and Pharaoh is there.
The case of Sheba is a clear indication that a woman leader can not survive as righteous (27:43). It is an example how disbelievers like to choose a woman as their leader because they can control them easier. She submitted with Solmon, and not alone (27:44). Only when she lost her leadership because she was defeated by Solomon did she manage to become a Submitter (27:44).
The same case is with Mary. Actually, one of the special missions of Zacharia was to be Mary's guardian. This is because she had a mission to spend her time in the sanctuary since God had told her to go to the temple. There is no example in the Quran of a leading woman as a submitter. But there are examples of leading women disbelievers, such as Sheba.
Regarding whether men and women are equal. Men are men and women are women (3:36). Are an apple and a pear equal? Men and women are equal to one another (4:25). This means that a woman is as valuable to a man as a man is valuable to a woman.
And if these things are making you feel uneasy @@@ and Fatima, it is partly because you are women. Jesus had 12 men disciples. The prophets and the messengers are men. Martyrs are mostly men. Soldiers who strive (fight) are mostly men (4:95). Men are the providers, and this means that God generally makes them richer because it wouldn't be smart for a poor person to provide for a richer person since it would be the opposite of charity. And because men are generally richer (in a true submitting society), then submitting men are generally better (16:75). This is not a guarantee that a specific man will necessarily be better than a specific woman. I'm afraid, that if you don't feel happy with this arrangement (4:34) you might leave some empty space in Heaven for the Arab women (66:11), and you have left a lot of empty space for %%%%%.
Please, just submit. Why is it so hard? I understand that a lot of you have made an ego for yourself, because your fathers have taught you something which is not right, and you have achieved to understand the truth despite what they told you. Now you want to prove them wrong. They were men, but that's not why they were wrong; that is why they were deeply wrong. Are you afraid that you will be treated unfairly again? (24:50). That's not what Fatima, the daughter of Mohammad, would say, and that's not what Mary said to Zacharia. They were happy with the proper arrangement.
If the Quran says that women should obey their righteous husbands, than I will say the same thing without fair of being blamed. If you think this sounds bad in UK, than don't ask me about those issues. I'm pretty sure that Mohammad sounded more outdated about women but he treated his wife (anyone of them) better than Rashad. Rashad was saying those things in such a political manner because he knew that there are submitting women being oppressed by "muslim" men all over the world, and what he said is not in contradiction with Quran. The Quran says the glass is half full, and Rashad said that the glass is half empty. He spoke the truth. Your questions are indeed disfavoring and hurting to any women with a traditional muslim husband, because this will give their husbands a justification to oppress them. There are still more submitting women with "muslim' husbands, than there are submitting women with submitting men. Please don't heart them. I'm sounding different from Rashad in these e-mails to distinguish those women who became submitters because it suited them from those who became submitters because they love to worship God alone. Don't be surprised, if you hear me sound like Rashad in front of "muslims" and western media.
Just get over it. You should obey your husband, if he is a submitter. Really, what would he order you? Honey, come to bed! Honey, you can go to your job whenever you have to! Honey, let's go to the Friday prayer! Is this really something a woman does not like to obey?
I'm pretty sure that #### doesn't ask (((((( to wear his socks for him, or wash his feet.
Fatima, appointing a will has to do with righteousness, because God is just.
Leadership does have to do with righteousness in a community of submitters (38:47). It does not have to do with righteousness in other communities. In other communities, it has to do with fame and richness.
The word ignorant means "not knowledgeable". If you take two people with exactly the same characteristics and exactly in the same circumstances, except that one of them is more knowledgeable. The one who is more knowledgeable is more righteous. This does not mean that if you take two people at random that the more knowledgeable is more righteous.
Regarding Homa's leadership - It was Wael or someone else who called her a leader and she and others did not deny it.
Regarding body parts - Our appearance reflects our initial decision before we came to this earth. it does not determine our destiny. It shows how we chose to start the test, and not how we will end it. We will be reward by how we end. But our test is designed by how we started, and our body reflects how we started. We started when we chose the test.
Ok, so why are our eyes above our nose? Why is our nose above our mouth. Why do we have two eyes, and not two mouths? Nothing is random. Everything in this world is a reflection of what happened in Heaven. There is a reason for everything. You will understand these things some day (18:68).
Regarding the strange creature of the sea - Yes you can eat one of them, but there are more of them which people have never seen. It just happens that they will not eat them. Similarly, it just happens that a woman does not lead the prayer among submitters (unless they are all women and children in a group).
I don't know whether I answered all your questions.
===============
really i am cracking up as i am amused at great lenghts
then i replied and for me, when jibberish is talking you just ignore it... this is my last topic on the matter
salam alaykum,
ighteousness and will, if you failed to see the point i was making i will refresh it for you.
the context in which the verse is translated has nowt to do with your evaluation "---the righteousness of the most righteous man brings twice as much benefits as the righteousness of the most righteous woman (4:11)"
you have made reference to a verse in the Quran talking about apportioning will, and you then take it out of context and impose it on your own evaluation... i am lost on that..
as with the othe rverses which you have also taken out of context... but if that is your understanding of the Quran then fair enuff for you..
anyhow to each is own...
this is not a men vs women issue by all accounts, for me what it is , is truth and how you are infereing things in relation to the Quran which i feel are clear in intent and context and how you spin them to relate to something else...... in anycase God provides meaning and understanding of the Quran... whatever you think if it works for you.. good on you..
this theory about body parts, i am really finding it very amusing... and please dont mind me saying how your own features are lost on you or you hav not looked in the mirror lately?
when you point one finger te others are pointing back at you...
**** as usual your replies amuse me if not anything.. as i have said before you never cease to amaze me - i just love watching the way you operate, it is interesting to watch and see how it will eventually enfold.. you are slowly drawing in other people into this making your audience bigger, but i am waiting to see if they fall for the bait...
Salam akaykum....
I have omitted the names... ***** in my view is the one whose reply is cracking me up with laughter.
XXXX is a particular womam that i feel he has issues with
@@@@@ is the person who started thetopic in the first instance
#### and ))))) are another married couple that we all know of
%%%%% is another lady that we all know of.
honestly at least i can say if nothing i have a good laugh... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Thursday, 17 December 2009
tired
this evening Lord, I am weary and tired.. but i give thanks any way Most Gracious for all your blessings upon me and I ask that you protect me from blaspheming against thee like others before me have done and that you guide me and set me onto the straight path...
Lord i AM tired.... i think i will go to bed
Lord i AM tired.... i think i will go to bed
Monday, 14 December 2009
14th December
its the 14th December.................................yipppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee its monday..................yesh...................................................
yesssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
and its not long before my birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
yeeeessssssHHHHHHH!!!
yesssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
and its not long before my birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
yeeeessssssHHHHHHH!!!
Saturday, 12 December 2009
i am very reserved with my emotions but at the same time i am not
One of the things i have discovered about myself.. is that - i am a different person with everyone that knows me.
i choose carefully which side of me i let them see..
in addition to that i never really let anyone know how i truly feel on things...
i will give different answers to the same question,, i just dont want to be cornered into giving a specific answer...
so why do i do that....
is it a good thing? i dont know... yes for me i can say because the only one who knows my position on things apart from God, always because growing up i have learned to keep my stuff to myself, - partly because of the the situation in my house growing up and also because i have always had to fend for myself, i have never had someone i can confide in, tell my deepest secrets - one thing my mum used to do fr me and still does to an extent is that - i remember when i was younger and i told her something that i considered private - whenever she was upset with me, she would shout that thing out and then use it to insuult and ridicule me - how i hated that - the many times she said she wouldnt do that and she did, so i guess i never let people on to how i really feel on things - kind of protect my emotions from ridicule...
on another hand it is a bad thing because there are some times when you need to bite the bullet and say what you have to say. but i guess in life it is experience and gw you know when to and when not to say some stuff about you.
i choose carefully which side of me i let them see..
in addition to that i never really let anyone know how i truly feel on things...
i will give different answers to the same question,, i just dont want to be cornered into giving a specific answer...
so why do i do that....
is it a good thing? i dont know... yes for me i can say because the only one who knows my position on things apart from God, always because growing up i have learned to keep my stuff to myself, - partly because of the the situation in my house growing up and also because i have always had to fend for myself, i have never had someone i can confide in, tell my deepest secrets - one thing my mum used to do fr me and still does to an extent is that - i remember when i was younger and i told her something that i considered private - whenever she was upset with me, she would shout that thing out and then use it to insuult and ridicule me - how i hated that - the many times she said she wouldnt do that and she did, so i guess i never let people on to how i really feel on things - kind of protect my emotions from ridicule...
on another hand it is a bad thing because there are some times when you need to bite the bullet and say what you have to say. but i guess in life it is experience and gw you know when to and when not to say some stuff about you.
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