precdents have been set for us in the scriptures with regards to Gods messengers, when someone who is claiming wont leave you alone but incessantly sends you emails upon emails, - remember there is no compulsion in religion - why isnt it enough for you to state ur message and leave it as that?? why must you email at 2.41 then at 2.44 then at 2.48 for example.. at this point i am thinking you have nothing better to do with your time, and also you are clutching at straws... because logical behaviour in my view is to say what you want to say and leave it to people to decide afterall you are not their guardian...
but when you start to email incessantly and in the course of these emails, you turn arrogant, rude, and you assume authority, when there is none..... then at this point i reckon ... "God help us all"...
because for one who is clear of his message states his message without any ambiguity or mis intent - that is who i feel is guided by God, but for one who is not sure of what he is saying and continually spins everyone around, slowly antagonising each person and slowly drawing people into the arena with his choice of words. - that person is a mischief maker... God does not like mischief....i am clear of that fact..
from the scriptures, the examples of messengers message have been simple direct and to the point, they state their message and leave the people to it.. when they see they are not getting anywhere they revert to God, not incessant barrage on the people.
when you start shrouding any explanation in lenghty words and grammer, then for me there is something wrong, because Gods message is simple and direct and lacks no ambguity
i will admit sometimes i see things from ur statements but most of the time especially when you quote the quran, your logic in my view ends up as nonsence because in effect, its like you are adding 1+1 and getting 55.
by that i meam you take half a statement from one verse and take half a statement from another verse and join them up to arrive at your reaon.. for me such a reason is severly flawed... Gods words are complete and need no abbrogation, this action of 1+1 equals 55 is for me like abrogation....
experience has taught me to listen to my heart especially when God is concerned.. the very first time i met you, i was suspicious and when i listened to your explanations i was even weary because i felt i saw a micheief maker at work.. your company and comments have caused a dispersal of a group - i feel you have antagonised everyone and played a part in boosting the egoic stance of some people...and it is a shame most people dont see this... but nevertheless this is how i feel... god guides us all and if i am wrong, may god forgive me... couple of things that i have deduced from emailing you, is that you are intelligent, but intelligence and stupidity goes hand in hand, you are averse to arab people, i dont know what they have done to you but this is slowly poisning your mind, and i am quite sure you know what you are doing... what i would rather be more interesting in finding out is the people who you were in contact with with in america when you were there, this part is by an large an open space for me and i wonder why i am interested in finding this out.... because you have arrived into a group with deceit( your intentions were wrong in my view) and as such any message that you spout can only ever be deceit... this divide and conquer in my view is how you gain attention for yourself, and it is is interesting to view....
I am clear what is in the scripture( may god increase in my knowledge) and i am clear that all truth belongs to God,
my initial thoughts are as thus.. so what if you are a messenger so what? what is your message - worship God devoting the message to God alone.. well fair enuff, that is the same message as before and this never changes...
I cannot seem to reconcile the rudeness, arrogance and what i call stupid talk from someone who claims to be a messenger of God... I will trust that God will guide me to righteousmess and he will grant me steadfastness in his cause...
my last word in the matter is as thus and this is a conscious effor from me to stop reading the incessant emails that i am being bombarded with, my mind is clear at the moment regards this.. anyones emails re this topic i will be deleting, it does not cost me a penny to delete ...
------------------
XXXXX peace and blessing of God upon you and the same goes for everyone as well
i am rather bemused by this word - clarifying messenger.
What is there to clarify -
to clarify would imply that the message of God is ambigous and is not clear - but i feel otherwise, The message is quite clear in content and intent and as such any understanding needed would come only from God - as God holds all knowledge and understanding.
if you feel the quran is not clear would you not seek to God to help you with understanding-
what is there to clarify - some issues that are not tackled in the Quran - let uus remember that they are not tackled for a reason - Gods has the plan and he knows - if it is an issue that affects me directly - i would seek God for guidance and direction - although as with human nature i will seek otehrs opinions - OPINIONS - not answers or guidance - with the hjope that God will inspire me to the best outtake - God has reveleaved that the Quran is complete - what other guidance or clarification is needed - we cannever be the first not will we be the last to ask about issues in the Quran that we feel are not covered - but remember the risk of loosing your soul in trying to find out about what the same other people have tried to find out...
This instinct we have from birth about God, if we develop it then surely God willing our own explanation will become clear for us - sometimes it may not be a one size fits all - your conscience will tell you wether something is right or not or wether you are pushing your luck or boundaries - who gives you that conscience - God does...That is the inspiration that he sends to us - These are my views.
What is there to clarify. the smoke - if the smoke is inevitable what action can we do to avoid it???.. none - will there be an underground tunnell for us to hide in until it clears?, is there a special way for us to board up our houses and windows so it does not enter our houses?, is there a special gas mask for us to buy? - Gods retribution is imminent but God has provided us with his mercy at the same time -Our Lord, relieve this retribution for us, We are believers. it is only the disbelievers that suffer at Gods retribution - let us remember the story of Lot and noah and other messengers whose story are detailed in the Quran.
What is there to clarify - that we should worship God alone and devote the religion absolutely to Him - does that need clarity... That has always been the message - Does this message need clarity???
God guides those he wills and he sends astray whomever he wills - we know that from teh scripture and also by looking at history and we should know that with God is the authority to Guide and provide clarity.
if i am not sure about a certain thing - will i run to any human being or will i implore God for understanding and clarity - in doing so if i say i trust in God i will have assurance and patience that at the best time that is right for me God will make it clear by providing me with the opportunity to experience and reflect and grasp what is at hand...
Who is more apt to give us these opportunities other than God...
My mind is always open - my life experiences has taught me that - but at the same time i am clear what is and what isnt and I seek to God to direct me in teh righteous path as a believer unto him alone, seeking his mercy and forgiveness daily.
alaykum salam
fatty fatty fats
===========================
Peace Fatima,
You are right. There is much division within the submitters. For over a year now, one of those divisions has remained unresolved. It is interesting that both sides of the division used the Koran to support their stance, yet the division remains. Could it be that our egos have got in the way of us all? Interestingly, it was Alban who pointed out that a simple meeting between some submitters could have sorted out this problem. I get the feeling that we are not seeing the wood for the trees, the trees being ALL OUR EGOS. If you look back at that period, it was a big ego fest when everyone was keen to have their say. I for one was very vocal. Yet if I had pulled back and thought to try and deal with the issue quietly then perhaps it might not have become so big and perhaps those involved could have been better supported by us all.
It is the same with the **** issue. It is becoming blown up and verses from the Koran are being thrown back and forth. If people can, perhaps they could take their time to slowly mull over what is being presented by **** and then make their decisions. I don't believe there is any need for decisions to be made quickly. Perhaps someone would care to explain why the urgent need to say yes or no.
I agree with you Fatima on one point especially. That of ****'s explanations. They are often lengthy and involved. I don't know what skills of clarity a messenger should have, but as **** says he is a clarifying messenger, then I feel his explanations should be clear so that we get clarity. Having said that, when I take the time to really understand what **** is saying I am often impressed.
As I said in an earlier email echoing Tasleem, I think it is best to keep an open mind.
Peace,
xxx.
===========================
sorry?
****** salam alaykum, and salam alaykum everyone -
****** I have said all i want to say with my previous email to you , please do nto include me in this matter, because for me it is a plan to slowly incite people - in this case me - into actions that are unbecoming of them.. it is funny - in the begining i said it was a divide and conquer and i am enjoying it because it is slowly taking shape....
after much consideration, i am seeking refuge with God from all these show of ego and counter ego and i do nto wish to be included in them.
although i am rather enjoying the rhetorts back and forward i am also at this point rather much getting sick and tired of it now because it is a shame.
a couple of things are facts for me and i reckon as submitters - wanting to worship God - we should all consider.
regardless of his claim as messenger or not, **** is not saying Worship other than God.
his explanations for me are far fetched and in no way can i reconcile then with what is in the Quran - which i find clear
if you dont like his explanations or feel that his explanations are wrong - then do a couple of things - ignore him or tell him, and provide your own logic or avoid asking him questions.
all understand and knowledge belongs to God - he bestows it upon whomever he wills.
We are all learning ( at least i am) so therefore we have patience tolerance with everyones elses understanding and grasp of things.
i believe that people can contribute and can grasp things and want to share it with the wider group of those who want to worship God alone - this does not make them a messenger of God, nor does it not not make them a messenger of God. - look at all those who contributed with regards to RK's translation of the Quran.
we need to define what we mean by messenger of God and i guess this is what is antagonising most peoplle - to a certain extent we are still identified with the human being far more than we identify with God.. because i reckon if we identify with God alone - what ever anyone may say, write or distribute should not matter in the slightest because we should know that God holds all truth and that the truth of God will always outshine any false claim or message. We should be secure with that knowledge and confident that God guides those whom he chooses.
as long as the message remains worship God alone and seek your guidance from God alone and clarification through the Quran - then why are we splitting hairs left right and center...
because someone who calls himself a submitter says he is a messenger of God, ok then good if they are a messneger of God so what? are they giving me automatic entry to paradise? can they absolve me of all my sins? Can they change any law of God,
the answer is no..
whatever message i need is in the Quran and god willing in the right time God will provide me with it, The most important message is Worship God alone. god knows our intentions and he sees our inner mischiefs - why on earth will i be splitting my hair over anyone who says ther are a messanger of God, - they are a dime a dozen - whatever religious demonination - they are all plenty out there. so why should this claim be any different in the way we respond to it and view it..
if that was the case that we fell strongly that we fully understand a particular message in the Quran then we may as well call ourselves all messengers of God...( i am quite sure when reading the Quran we feel strongly about a certain surah and we feel we have got to grips with the message and intent it is relaying)
We are creating havoc when there need not to be one - we are slowly creating division when there needs not to be one...
Let us remember God -
who are we arguing for, we are not arging for Gods sake, God is in no need of our arguements - we are all doing that individually for the sake of our own soul to grant us favour with the good Lord.
we are forgetting tolerance, understanding and patience....
look as far as i am concerned and i said this a while back, - if we focus on God surely we cannot fail, the time and energy it is taking for all these emails to be read, composed would rather in my view be better spent on praising, glorifying, exalting and imploring God to provide us with knowledge and understanding.God is the one who provides guidance, and by His grace He will guide us all.
everything in life is a lesson and it is a opportunity to reflect and see if we are true to what we say we believe in.
i am rather a simplistic person and i have very simple outlooks - and this is my own opinions in the matter.
salam alaykum everyone.
ps: fatima is about the only one that she knows that even with a spell checker - you will still find errors in her correspondence - so if you do find any errors, apologies - but i hope you get the gist of what i am trying to say.
pps: my french is awful - and i would have loved to translate - but i have used some non grammatical lingo that may be hard to grasp in my translate site.
pps: some of you have said for **** to stop email you, then why he still including you in his emails, and also why are you concerned and emailing him back.... lol
alaykum salam everyone.
as usual - if i have offended anyone by my email - it is not intentional - and i apologise, i can only state as i see it - let us remember God, Worship God alone, Remember unity, remember tolerance, and lastly remember We cannot guide anyone at all, God is in charge of everyones guidance.
Fatty Fats
==============================
this has to be said.
No comments:
Post a Comment