Sceptical on Ha Patcha.... 2:42 Do not confound truth with falsehood

there is this i found in a submitters perspective? Jan 2004

We know that the Christian’s Lord’s prayer is very similar in content to “The Key.” As a model of prayer, every Christian learns it by heart. During a trip to Jakarta, Indonesia, brother Gatut has come across an opening prayer practiced by the Diaspora Christian denomination. The prayer is called Ha Patchah. He found it very interesting that these Christians seem to have adopted many of the ancient Jewish practices in their rituals along with the Lord’s Prayer. These observations confirm the Quranic accounts that all these prayers came from Abraham's ancient practice taught by God.

The Key (Al-Fatehah) - Khalifa translation
[1:1] In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1:2] Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.

[1:3] Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.

[1:5] You alone we worship; You alone we ask for help.

[1:6] Guide us in the right path;

[1:7] the path of those whom You blessed; not of those who have deserved wrath, nor of the strayers.

HA PATCHAH
(THE OPENING PRAYER)
BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM
In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.5:1; Dan.9:9)

T’HILAH L’ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM
All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)

HA RAHAMIM
The Most Gracious (Dan.9:9)

MELEK YOM HA DIN
Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)

ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN
To you, O Lord, I implore – and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 30:9)

HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR
Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 27:11)

ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO
The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 8:6)

LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH
Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 119:21)

Reference Verses from Torah and Hebrew transliteration:

B’shem elah yisrael aleihohn (Ezr.5:1).
In the name of the God of Israel

L’Adonai Eloheinu harachamim (Dan.9:9)
Unto Adonai our God the merciful

Eilechah Adonai ekra v’el-Adonai et-chanan (Psalm 30:9)
Unto You Adonai I called and unto Adonai I implored

Horeini Adonai darchechah u-n’cheini b’orach mishor. (Psalm 27:11)
Teach me, Adonai, your way and guide me (lit. make me right) on your straight path.

(Shamartah et-mitzvot Adonai elohechah) lalechet bi’darchav u-l’yirah otoh (Deut 8:6)
(Keep/Guard God’s commandments so that) you will walk (lit. to walk) in His paths and so that you will fear (lit. to fear; to be in awe of) Him

Ga-artah zeidim arurim hashogim mi-mitzvotechah (Psalm 119:21)
You have rebuked the insolent, accursed sinners who have strayed from Your commandments

[Ed’s note: Many thanks to brother Gatut of Indonesia for providing the information on Ha Patchah, and sister Betsy of Jewish Congregation Or Chadash for checking the prayer for accuracy in Hebrew and for providing the Hebrew transliteration of the referenced verses from Torah.]


Questions that raises up in me

1 - i googled "ha patcha" and i cannot find any reference to it other than what is posted from the submission site. has this been verified as being true - or are we just wanting to believe in wishful thinking??

2 - is this a prayer or something a group of people put together to praise God.

3 - they say it is a jewish prayer - but it was said by a " dispora christain
denomination" - who are they exactly - more information needs to be provided about them.

4 - a look at the verses one can see outright that they are not a follow through but rather are a mix up of verses from the old testament to make up what resembles fatiha in Quran -

let us call a spade a spade - i will question openly the authenticity of this "discovery"

one has to look at the psalms and the jewish prayer book to note that though this ha patcha - said in jewish is a compilation of prayer( a pick and mix of words to suit whatever purpose for whomever) - for me , unless more information comes to light - i am not at liberty to agree that is is a prayer passed down but rather it is an attempt to compile verses to resemble fatiha of the Quran.

i will invite everyone to pick up the bible old testament and find out the verses quoted and verify themselves - they are not direct verses by any accounts - but phrases taken out of verses and then compiled into this "ha patcha"

I.E - ezra 5:1 using the KJV reads - "Then the prophets, Haggai the prophet, and Zechariah the son of Iddo, prophesied unto the Jews that were in Judah and Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel, even unto them" ( we can see that in the name of the God of Isreal - a phrase has been taken out of the whole text)

daniel 9:9 using the KJV reads - "To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him." ( same thing as above comment)

Psalm 30:9 using KJV reads - "What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth" ( i think what they are trying touse of psalm 30:8 which reads -I cried to thee, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication)

Psalm 27:11 using KJV reads - "Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies."

Deuteronomy 8:6 using KJV reads - "Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him. "

Psalm 119:21 using KJV reads - "Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments."

i thought truth seekers were above all that - taking a phrase or word out of context and using it to manipulate whatever idea/notion they want to convince others about.

God does not need anyone to prove His existence and His authority - He is High above all that - his truth will always Prevail.

Truth will prevail and falsehood will vanish - surely falsehood will inevitably vanish!!!


Remember - 17:36

Khalifa - You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Yusuf Ali - And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).

Pickthal - (O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked.

Shakir - And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

Sher Ali - And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Verily, the ear and the eye and the heart - all these shall be called to account.

"Progressive Muslims" - And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.

Reformist Translation - Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing,
eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.*

May God guide us in His truth and help us to worship Him alone - Ihidina siratal mustaqim.
( funny thing just crossed my mind - lol - everyone says this done we - how do we know those who are guided? really God help us all)