Start
Salam everyone, Could someone who is knowledgeble please explain in simple English what is the issue with these counts? I've read about them before but can't seem to grasp it. When a situation comes up where I have an opportunity to talk about the message and the miracle, I have in the past sent people to submission.org or masjidtucson. .org. Should I not be doing this because of this count business? Also, some of you may already know this but there are also mistakes claimed in Appendix 15 regarding the multiples of 19 in the confirmation of the 5 prayers and the Friday prayer. I have confirmed this for myself and have brought it other people's attention in the community but they seem reluctant to make changes to the appendix. I find this unsettling because in my dreams of bringing the message and the miracle to the main stream media I feel all claims should be absolutely correct. Peace and God Bless,
Reply
salamit is all interesting again.. a point i feel we are missing or might be missing is that 19 or not.. it is belief in God alone that matters. one only has to read the quran to see that... we are holding on to miracles i.e miracle of 19. the quran is clear in terms of prayer i feel and as long as you hold on to God and uphold Gods scriptures.. Quran and all... then God wiling everything becomes clear... yes it is good to have clarified and honest statements made about and in refeence to the quran.. i feel. personally i dont understand the 19 thing and have never made an attempt to understand bar counting the no of times out lips touch in fatiah... but using the 19 thing to justify everything else in life may not be ideal or right... it may be but i dont know that. as i see it, the 19 may be a valid evidence for the authenticity of the Quran... but it is authenticity of salat.. which by the way is authentic on its own because going nac history and worship lines.. it is a practice that is always constant. bar all the new formations and interpretations that humans tend to impose on themselves.. or zakat or anything else for that matter... God guide us all and guide us to the truth.. salam fats
i am quite intrugued though about what you say so if i may have missed it earlier apologies but can you bring our attention to your findings...if you say you have brought it to the communties atention and they have done nothing.. open it up to everybody and let everyone see what it is you say.. there may be someone in this forum who may help shed light on the issue for you...the apendixes i feel were a persons/group of persons understandin g and take on some topics in the quran as such changes to the apendixes may mean getting all the people who contributed to it together to agree on the change and get it done.. this my or may not be possible.. salam
Reply
from your statements repeated below I gather you do not necessarily believe there is a mathematical miracle based on the number 19 in the Quran, and do not accept Rashad Khalifa as a messenger of God. Your statements which caught my attention: ”the apendixes i feel were a persons/group of persons understandin g and take on some topics in the quran as such changes to the apendixes may mean getting all the people who contributed to it together to agreeon the change and get it done.. this my or may not be possible..”
”a point i feel we are missing or might be missing is that 19 or not.. it is belief in God alone that matters. one only has to read the quran to see that... we are holding on to miracles i.e miracle of 19.” ”personally i dont understand the 19 thing and have never made an attempt to understand bar counting the no of times out lips touch in fatiah ” ”as i see it, the 19 may be a valid evidence for the authenticity of the Quran...but it is authenticity of salat.. which by the way is authentic on its own ” What you believe or not is of course entirely up to you. We are all free to believe what we want, or not, and nobody on this forum has anything invested in your choice,ither way. The thing is, that this particular forum, which is by invitation only, is for people who believe in the miracle of the Quran and have accepted the> mesesngership of Rashad Khalifa. As we have already accepted this new information from God and are reaping the benefits of increased and clarified understanding because of it, we wish to advance from this point forward, not go backwards. Therefore we made this a forum only for people who have passed this point of erification. If that was not made clear enough before, our apologies. Let it be made clear enough now If you feel that your statements have been misinterpreted, I welcome your correction of the same.
Reply
salam my comments and personal opinion are thus as i wrote so I am not sure which part you dont understand.. but i am afraid to say that you gather wrongly.apeendices i gather were the work of rashad as well as contributions from other people.. according to the apendices themselves .. hence any alteration to them i feel should rightly involve those who contributed to it then get them all to agree on alteration and correct them whenb you have revised editions 1/2/3/4 them i can also safely assume that alterations have been made in the past this is my egenral observation
19 miracle is something which fascinated me but no something i personally can rwalte to.. i did not say i dont believe in it, i said it is something i do not understand.. there is a difference.. praise God that i am able to read the wquran and from my heart i know that it is the right thing for me: worship God alone and all religious laws according to the Quran.. i personally dont require validity as experience has taught me that my soul/heart knows validity from what it reads and understands( God willing i will sit and count the thing myself in the near future) because God will make it clear for me and all praises be to God that He has.. my statements have not been misrepresented. ..as i was clear what i wrote i will beg your indulgence to say that you are the one reading it wrong.. salam fats ps: having read it back i am amazed to say fats is the only person i know evene with spell checker who still gets everything spelt wrongly
Reply
What part did I read wrong?
I stated that you do not beeve in the miracle of 19 – which you admit to. How can you, when you have not looked at it yet? I stated that you do not accept Rashad Khalifa as a messenger of God – which your statement that the Appendices ”were a persons/group of persons understandin g and take on some topics” indicates. It is either that or that you have not been bothered to look at it yet properly. Had you read the appendices, verified and accepted the information in them, you would not have said what you did about the contents, and you would know that the contents are not negotiable or adjustable, as it was conveyed through a commissioned messenger of God (there were some small contributions in terms of mathematical observations - some of which were later found to be wrong, and were thus removed - nothing else besides proof reading). Your take on all of this, as I entioned, may very well be because you have not taken the time to look at it yet. From what you are saying it seems however that you feel neither an urgency, nor a necessity in so doing. This strikes me as odd for someone who believes in God, and especially odd for someone who claims to believe in the Quran. That would be like a Christian hearing about Jesus being back, preaching in the church next door, deciding it is not important to go and listen. I raised this question to you, as one of the critierias to be a member of this forum is to have passed the point of verification of these facts. We made it so, as we know that these facts serve as a filter to distinguish those who believe from those who don’t (3:82), as well as those who harbor doubts who say it is not important, or ’so what’ (74:31). And if the simple facts of themiracle listed in the Appendices cannot attract enough of
your attention to convince you, of a miracle God describes
as ten times the miracle of all the previous ones, what
could you possibly share with us, and what could we possibly
say to you, that would be useful to either If you wish to stay a member of this forum, I urge you to look at the miracle and get back to us with your take on it as soon as possible.
Reply
Salam AlaykumI dont understand it does not mean i dont believe in it..by my comprehension i can accept a fact without nevessarily understanding it...re apendicssare just what i have stated...and by the way.. dont assume i have not had a look. i must have had a look to notice that they were contributors to somer facts presented therein.. hence my logic on it... i have the second edition of the rashad translated quran so any omission/addition i am not aware of..as thankfylly I have eyes to read and ears to hear and brain to understandto verify that the worship of God is about God alone and the Quran as source of religious law.. do not be so hasty as to presume that we all have to follow verification on the same level..as i said previously, my soul/heart knows what is the truth from God ( which by the way is culmination of using my faculties to disern what is right from false) and as i leave and breathe God help me towards accepting it and following it...my opinions as thus i do not see any need to change it..as to being a part in the forum... it is ur choice if u want to remove or not.. doesnt add anything to my worship of God or subtract anything from my worship practices to God.. i enjoy the forum becos it given me things to ponder on re:different people different ways and i learn from each post so really its up to you...as previously stated i have said what i said ( not sure which part you are taking out of context bcos it is clear to me)and i stand where i stand.. God being my witness and my judge..ps: it is not you or anyone who decides who believes or does not believe.. True belief in God and His message comes from God and is by His grace...as such we are all racing in each our own ways to attaining the status of believers...though i am aware of a point you may be making in terms of this.fats
Reply
Samun Alaykum
You neither believe in it, or not, even though, as you now add in your latest response, you may have already looked at it. Either way, you have not made up your mind about it, which is a criteria to be a member of this forum.
You were invited to clarify your position regarding this, but instead are restating your original attitude in downsizing the significance of the miracle. Even though you are using subtle words in so doing, and even though you state your commitment to God alone and being a believer in the Quran alone, you are posting ideas on this forum that the miracle of 19 does not really matter that much, that you don’t really need it, and that people are spending too much time on it. All of these attitudes are completely unquranic.
”a point i feel we are missing or might be missing is that 19 or not.. it is belief in God alone that matters. one only has to read the quran to see that... we are holding on to miracles i.e miracle of 19.” ”personally i dont understand the 19 thing and have never made an attempt to understand bar counting the no of times out lips touch in fatiah... ” ”as i see it, the 19 may be a valid evidence for the authenticity of the Quran...but it is authenticity of salat.. which by the way is authentic on its own ”
”my soul/heart knows what is the truth from God ( which by the way is culmination of using my faculties to disern what is right from false)...”
”my opinions as thus i do not see any need to change it..”
You are welcome to reapply to this forum when you have had time to properly verify the facts and state your position on them.
Reply
salam alaykum..
but i am findnd this rather interesting...
nd point of note my personal opinion is my personal opinion as i am sure every one has theirs...
like i stated.before i do not need to understand the 19 before accepting that worshipping God is about God alone..if thats how it worked for u then good for you...
"Yu were invited to clarify your position regarding this, but instead are restating your original attitude in downsizing the significance of the miracle. Even though you are using subtle words in so doing, and even though you state your commitment to God alone and being a believer in the Quran alone, you are posting ideas on this forum that the miracle of 19 does not really matter that much, that you don’t really need it, and that people are spending too much time on it. All of these attitudes are completely unquranic"
i didnt realise i was being subtle.. because i am as clear with my writing as i clear in my head Thank God...
so let me clarify here, are you expecting everyone to have the same thought process?
will be better to read my postings with a clear mind not any hidden agenda..
if you or anyone dont agree with my comments then fair enuff. iam not expecting you to neither am i expecting you to.. is that un-subtle enuff.. postings are there i guess to bunce ideas of each person and God willing maybe learn something new..
as always i only speak fo rmyself, on my experiences and my understanding...
what is unquranic about that expect speaking the truth and holding onto god alone as that...
i wrote a whole splii there about the 19 but really on aftertough i am realising that you want me to account for myself re: how i can believe in God without necesarrily nderstanding the 19 miracle... but really it dawns on me that i cannot and will not stoop that low as to give you justification for my faith.. which is what you are asking...
first because i would want to know if you have asked everyone of this or am i just being singled out because you dont like what i have posted...
second because really i have already done that in my earlier replies to you.. much to my amazement...
in anycase both will imply that you are jdge and jury and neither of which apply. so i have deleted it...
"his approach and attitude is exposing arrogance and contributes to spreading poison and doubts. We have plenty of that outside this forum. THIS forum was created for people who have already passed the point of verification of these earth shattering facts and miracle, who have a clear mind and heart about this matters, so we can discuss other things here which will help us move forward, not spend time discussing things we have already passed a long time ago, which can only drag us back. "
arrgoance.. hmmm.. that is a new one... spreading poison/doubt.. who have i spread poisin and doubt to...
if you feel i have.. please Hold on to God and dont let go... because that is what we are invited to do.. I am clear that i want to hold on to God alon.. are you..?
and dear, what makes you think i have not passed the "point of verification of these matters earth shattering...." you seem to think yo uknow all the answers and have all the hands on everyones thought process...
why on earth would you imply that i d not have a clear mind or heart about...
like i said this is rather interesting...
God be praised that i know when i am from, know where i have been and thank God know where i want to go...
so really in all honesty ............
since you have a handle on everything you will decide what mkes us as a community progreaa forward or what makes us regress...arogance my dear....but i am glad i understand that is your personal opinion so good luck to you...
fats
This life amazes me because as usual it does...authocraty and power is when you leave no room for possibilities outside your own.. where you expect people to follow one norm.. yours..
the wor os God will always be the same whichever way you look at it, try to distort it or comprehend it.. word of God is the word of God.. and as i dont answer to any man. Gods will be done..
afterall, it is God i am asked to worship and his laws i am asked to upohold..
for those who require proof of Gods dominance good luck to them and for those who dont good luck to then as well.
in gods manifestation there is no mistake, no count error and no ambiguesness,, There is room for everyone and possibilities are endless.
like i said, there may not be a one size fits all,, we have to account that we are all individual each with our ous circumstances.. what happends for one may not necessarily be the same for the other.. the sooner we aret realising that the better..
The end result will always be the end result.. but getting there may involve trips, jumps, straigh forward or even wuru wuru to the answer..
organised religion/group/whateva name you call it.. leaves something to be desired,, especially when there is no room for expression.. if that expression does not fit in with you you want to fit in with...
everything happens for a reason as such this was meant to matrilise..
as always God is the one I hold on to and all my guidance and clarification is the the quran from God as is also in other scriptures of God, Oldtestament, Gospel of Jesus, Psalms..
and if I hold on to God alone i am most certain i will not fail...
fats
something else comes to mind...
gods system is always the same..
i.e look at jesus and his diciples... it was after jesus that we had gospel of mark, peter etc... Dem say jesus said that......some grave claims were made.. which were not made when jesus was alive o... some people choosing to believe in Paul/mark his diciples over what Jesus himself has said/brought from God.. as such we have different factions of chrustianity...
look at mohammed and his followers... it was their take that divided arab islam to shia sunni and whatever have you....Den say mohammed say that......some grave claims were made.. which were not made when mohammed was alive...some people choosing to believe his hadith.. his sayings that they heard other people saying over the word of God.. as such we have factions those who choose God alone vs those who choose messenger alone vs those who just mixthe two
now look at rashad Khalifa.. it was after him that we are having different people and their different takes.. Dem say that he say that...there are editions of the Quran..
now where in earth does one have editions of the word of God.. but rather these editions are in the appendices.. which man has written...
really in Gods words there is no mistake but rather it is in man and his actions that we find mistakes and erros
some people choosing to upholsd his hadith,.. which is his saying over the word of God...
really Gods system is always the same..
you knw what i call God.. "teacher of the Quran"... He is the one who will teach me, can guide me and provide meaning for me.. anyone else who think they can do this.. good luck to them.. but rather i choose God over anybody else.. Gods word is out there.. make of it what you will
but on a logicall level.. despite what ever else we have.. if you hold on to the word of God and god alone.. then no need for this nonsence...
No comments:
Post a Comment